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Old 10-16-2012, 10:55 AM #43
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Richard (Thanks Mark!),

Sorry for taking so long to reply.

let's set a few ground rules so we can navigate through this easier.
1) DO NOT answer inside someone else's quotes! It really makes it HARD for a reply to a reply. Below is all I see from your responses to my last comment here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLN View Post
@markcheb - although I believe that God loves all of us. I find it hard to believe that He purposely wills for such disunity amongst Christians. I find it hard to believe that a loving and merciful God will leave us on our own to interpret Scripture by ourselves and then form our own church with theology based on what we believe/like about Scripture.
2) Do not INFER anything AND backup everything you (and I) say so there is no dispute as to where you (and I) base things in the discussion.

I made no statement that Sola Scriptura is the only way to go. YOU said it was NOT correct.

So.

Let me make my statement again and please reply separately/outside of it so we can continue to dialog.

I said (in reply to you):
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind26 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLN View Post
^i'm following a Bible study course. http://biblestudyforcatholics.com/

Catholic teaching vs Bible teaching? Not sure where your going with this but Catholic teaching does not contradict the Holy Scriptures. Furthermore I read and pray with Scripture everyday. So don't assume that when I am reading the writings of spiritual powerhouses like Aquinas, Augustine, and Therese of Liseux I am replacing the Bible with there writings. These Christians point us closer to God and what they say does not contradict the Bible. Try reading something from St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas and tell me what they say is unbiblical.

Read the Bible by itself without any guidance? Thats why there are so many denominations out there and thats why we get people like david koresh. Sorry but Sola Scriptura is unbiblical. So is Sola Fidei.
....and that last line is exactly what I meant by Catholic vs Bible.

Please elaborate why Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidei is unbiblical.

and to briefly address the paragraph before: I never said that those authors said something against the Bible or extrabiblical. In fact, they have said some very profoundly, biblical things.

I'm not saying you are doing wrong by studying their writings. I was saying that their teaching is still man's views on the Bible/God/Christianity. What I meant by studying the Bible on its own is just that (to study directly from the source: The Bible). It PREVENTS you from the getting/turning into a David Koresh (and follower). The people duped were so because of their poor knowledge of God's Word in regards to these very heretic teaching/people and the apostates that teach subtly do so carefully navigating the Bible to suit their intentions.

We need to be like the Bereans. They tested EVERYTHING they heard from Paul (Acts 17).

If you are a child of God (after having received Christ as savior) you have the Holy Spirit to help you align the spiritual to the spiritual and gain understanding.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:30 PM #44
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Going to a youth conference in Detroit on Friday with or church. Its called Orange Leadership. So excited but its going to be a long day after working until midnight the night before. Leaving at 4:45 am.

On other subjects.... I put an application in some place and just waiting for an interview so I can get out of the casino business.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:33 PM #45
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Going to a youth conference in Detroit on Friday with or church. Its called Orange Leadership. So excited but its going to be a long day after working until midnight the night before. Leaving at 4:45 am.

On other subjects.... I put an application in some place and just waiting for an interview so I can get out of the casino business.
Have a safe trip to the conference. It's always great to work with our youth especially with all the "crap" society bombards them with. Hope the job hunting goes well for you Dom.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:42 PM #46
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Well one of the guys from my church is a district manager of the place I applied, so might be a good in.

Yeah I've done 2 Sundays as a small group leader. This Saturday & Sunday is a youth retreat that my wife is helping with.

I'm just super stoked that we have found an awesome church family. I've made so many friends that I can call, text, have lunch with ect. One of which is the youth pastor, its almost like he is my little brother (he is the same age of my brother if he were still alive). We share a lot of the same likes its almost freaky. Couple days ago we went to lunch and ordered the same meal, even though I ordered first and he was waiting for the bathroom.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:45 PM #47
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I love that.

We have a brother in our church who is like that, but my older brother. He's zany like me......but I'm better looking.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:51 PM #48
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Here is the conference info: http://www.whatisorange.org/orangeleaders/

He is the first friend that randomly calls just to say hi and whats up.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:03 PM #49
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Orange sounds a lot like we are doing with our church for our kids.
I have NEVER heard of Orange. How did you come across this?

Also, where can I view their vision, mission statements????
I checked the link, but didn't see it.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:07 PM #50
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Our church. I think its from Andy Stanley's church in GA.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:08 PM #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind26 View Post
....and that last line is exactly what I meant by Catholic vs Bible.

Please elaborate why Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidei is unbiblical.

and to briefly address the paragraph before: I never said that those authors said something against the Bible or extrabiblical. In fact, they have said some very profoundly, biblical things.

I'm not saying you are doing wrong by studying their writings. I was saying that their teaching is still man's views on the Bible/God/Christianity. What I meant by studying the Bible on its own is just that (to study directly from the source: The Bible). It PREVENTS you from the getting/turning into a David Koresh (and follower). The people duped were so because of their poor knowledge of God's Word in regards to these very heretic teaching/people and the apostates that teach subtly do so carefully navigating the Bible to suit their intentions.

We need to be like the Bereans. They tested EVERYTHING they heard from Paul (Acts 17).

If you are a child of God (after having received Christ as savior) you have the Holy Spirit to help you align the spiritual to the spiritual and gain understanding.
I hope I'm posting according to the above requirements. I find it easier if I put your comments in "paranthesis" and then respond right after if that's ok.

"and that last line is exactly what I meant by Catholic vs Bible."
--- I'm not exactly sure what your saying here. The Cathoic church is akin to David Koresh's group? Please explain?

"Please elaborate why Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidei is unbiblical."
---Let's focus on Sola Scriptura first and then move onto Sola Fide afterwards. For those who don't know Sola Scriptura or Scripture Alone is the belief that the Bible is the sole and ONLY source for teaching for Christians. It is the ONLY rule of faith for these Christians. Basically as long as the read the Bible and follow what the Bible says based on their intepretations which they believe to be guided by the Holy Spirit. My response to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is no where in the Bible does the Bible say that. Show me where in Holy Scripture does it say that the Bible is the ONLY source for Christian teaching.

"and to briefly address the paragraph before: I never said that those authors said something against the Bible or extrabiblical. In fact, they have said some very profoundly, biblical things. I'm not saying you are doing wrong by studying their writings. I was saying that their teaching is still man's views on the Bible/God/Christianity. "
---First you say that the writings of Aquinas and Augustine are very profound and then you say that the writings of these Christian scholars is man's view? Could it possibly be that the Holy Spirit is the one that inspires these people to live out the Gospel and to reflect and write and expound on Scripture?


"What I meant by studying the Bible on its own is just that (to study directly from the source: The Bible). It PREVENTS you from the getting/turning into a David Koresh (and follower). The people duped were so because of their poor knowledge of God's Word in regards to these very heretic teaching/people and the apostates that teach subtly do so carefully navigating the Bible to suit their intentions."
---- I think I've already indicated that I am studying the Bible. Who are my teachers: The Christian scholars and theologians whose writings on the Bible have been passed down through centuries. Are you saying I should ignore all the exegesis that was written and taught by Christians throughout the centuries on Holy Scripture and just read the Bible only? No commentaries, no translation guides, no sources to guide me? It is that very reason that people get confused and misinterpret scripture because they are basing their understanding of Scripture on what they know. This is also another problem resulting from Sola Scriptura.


"We need to be like the Bereans. They tested EVERYTHING they heard from Paul (Acts 17)."
--- I do. And continue to do so and have found nothing in Catholicism to contradict Holy Scripture. If I had I would've left Catholicism 15 years ago when I started "exploring" in college.

"If you are a child of God (after having received Christ as savior) you have the Holy Spirit to help you align the spiritual to the spiritual and gain understanding."
---So whose to say that what one Christian interpets is wrong versus another? If this is true then why do we have thousands upon thousands of denominations with varying degrees of theology and biblical intpretations? By what authority can we say to another Christian "no your intepretation is invalid." Afterall, they've accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour and they say they have the Holy Spirit guiding them. So their interpretation has to be also correct right? This line of thinking is what leads to people/groups like david koresh and it is also why sola scriptura is not only unbiblical but dangerous. There must be an authority on Scripture intepretation and the various denominations out there is proof that not everyone is guided by the Holy Spirit as we Christians like to believe
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:14 PM #52
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Here is the conference info: http://www.whatisorange.org/orangeleaders/

He is the first friend that randomly calls just to say hi and whats up.
That's cool. I like how they even address college. I used to work heavily with youth between 1998-2004. Here's the ministry I used to do back then: http://lifeteen.com/

Not so much now as I'm working more with adults primarily married couples but also young single adults and "older" adults. I do this ministry together with my wife. Here's the website: http://www.couplesforchristglobal.org/

However, as parents we can't help but get pulled towards ministry with children as well. So we're looking at starting the Kids For Christ portion of our ministry.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:30 PM #53
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NEW thread?


Listened to this this morning. Feel ready to kill it in the gym now! It's worth a listen. The pastor is British too.

http://castroller.com/Podcasts/Hills...London/2979077
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:30 PM #54
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I hope I'm posting according to the above requirements. I find it easier if I put your comments in "paranthesis" and then respond right after if that's ok.

"and that last line is exactly what I meant by Catholic vs Bible."
--- I'm not exactly sure what your saying here. The Cathoic church is akin to David Koresh's group? Please explain?

"Please elaborate why Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidei is unbiblical."
---Let's focus on Sola Scriptura first and then move onto Sola Fide afterwards. For those who don't know Sola Scriptura or Scripture Alone is the belief that the Bible is the sole and ONLY source for teaching for Christians. It is the ONLY rule of faith for these Christians. Basically as long as the read the Bible and follow what the Bible says based on their intepretations which they believe to be guided by the Holy Spirit. My response to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is no where in the Bible does the Bible say that. Show me where in Holy Scripture does it say that the Bible is the ONLY source for Christian teaching.

"and to briefly address the paragraph before: I never said that those authors said something against the Bible or extrabiblical. In fact, they have said some very profoundly, biblical things. I'm not saying you are doing wrong by studying their writings. I was saying that their teaching is still man's views on the Bible/God/Christianity. "
---First you say that the writings of Aquinas and Augustine are very profound and then you say that the writings of these Christian scholars is man's view? Could it possibly be that the Holy Spirit is the one that inspires these people to live out the Gospel and to reflect and write and expound on Scripture?


"What I meant by studying the Bible on its own is just that (to study directly from the source: The Bible). It PREVENTS you from the getting/turning into a David Koresh (and follower). The people duped were so because of their poor knowledge of God's Word in regards to these very heretic teaching/people and the apostates that teach subtly do so carefully navigating the Bible to suit their intentions."
---- I think I've already indicated that I am studying the Bible. Who are my teachers: The Christian scholars and theologians whose writings on the Bible have been passed down through centuries. Are you saying I should ignore all the exegesis that was written and taught by Christians throughout the centuries on Holy Scripture and just read the Bible only? No commentaries, no translation guides, no sources to guide me? It is that very reason that people get confused and misinterpret scripture because they are basing their understanding of Scripture on what they know. This is also another problem resulting from Sola Scriptura.


"We need to be like the Bereans. They tested EVERYTHING they heard from Paul (Acts 17)."
--- I do. And continue to do so and have found nothing in Catholicism to contradict Holy Scripture. If I had I would've left Catholicism 15 years ago when I started "exploring" in college.

"If you are a child of God (after having received Christ as savior) you have the Holy Spirit to help you align the spiritual to the spiritual and gain understanding."
---So whose to say that what one Christian interpets is wrong versus another? If this is true then why do we have thousands upon thousands of denominations with varying degrees of theology and biblical intpretations? By what authority can we say to another Christian "no your intepretation is invalid." Afterall, they've accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour and they say they have the Holy Spirit guiding them. So their interpretation has to be also correct right? This line of thinking is what leads to people/groups like david koresh and it is also why sola scriptura is not only unbiblical but dangerous. There must be an authority on Scripture intepretation and the various denominations out there is proof that not everyone is guided by the Holy Spirit as we Christians like to believe
This is MUCH better!

Ok. Let's dive in. *WARNING* Incoming wall of text *WARNING*

Me: "and that last line is exactly what I meant by Catholic vs Bible."
You: I'm not exactly sure what your saying here. The Cathoic church is akin to David Koresh's group? Please explain?
Me: I never compared anyone to David Koresh. You did. What I said was that studying the Bible for yourself prevents you from blindly following cult leaders like David Koresh (that you initially referenced). But on that note, I have seen how the RCC discourages its parishioners from studying the Bible because it is the priest's role to deliver the "studied" messages. I have heard from COUNTLESS RCC's who do not read, have a desire to read or even know anything about their Bibles outside of what the priest has told them. I USED to be catholic, my parents were catholic and my grandparents were catholic. So I can speak from first hand account.

Me: "Please elaborate why Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidei is unbiblical."
You: Let's focus on Sola Scriptura first and then move onto Sola Fide afterwards. For those who don't know Sola Scriptura or Scripture Alone is the belief that the Bible is the sole and ONLY source for teaching for Christians. It is the ONLY rule of faith for these Christians. Basically as long as the read the Bible and follow what the Bible says based on their intepretations which they believe to be guided by the Holy Spirit. My response to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is no where in the Bible does the Bible say that. Show me where in Holy Scripture does it say that the Bible is the ONLY source for Christian teaching.
Me: Uh, no. Take a step back. Re-read. You made the claim that Sola Scriptura is unbiblical.....provide proof/evidence of or for this so we can begin to discuss.

Me: "and to briefly address the paragraph before: I never said that those authors said something against the Bible or extrabiblical. In fact, they have said some very profoundly, biblical things. I'm not saying you are doing wrong by studying their writings. I was saying that their teaching is still man's views on the Bible/God/Christianity. "
You: First you say that the writings of Aquinas and Augustine are very profound and then you say that the writings of these Christian scholars is man's view? Could it possibly be that the Holy Spirit is the one that inspires these people to live out the Gospel and to reflect and write and expound on Scripture?
Me: Can a man (any man) say something biblical/true/correct? Absolutely. Should you study their teachings as God's teaching (on par with His written Word)? Never. Man can and may study what other men have concluded, but you and I ALWAYS need to go back to the source (The Word of God) to know what God Himself says on the subject. I don't know if I'm making myself clear here.

Skipping a couple of comments that don't further either side....

....

Me: "If you are a child of God (after having received Christ as savior) you have the Holy Spirit to help you align the spiritual to the spiritual and gain understanding."
You: So whose to say that what one Christian interpets is wrong versus another? If this is true then why do we have thousands upon thousands of denominations with varying degrees of theology and biblical intpretations? By what authority can we say to another Christian "no your intepretation is invalid." Afterall, they've accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour and they say they have the Holy Spirit guiding them. So their interpretation has to be also correct right? This line of thinking is what leads to people/groups like david koresh and it is also why sola scriptura is not only unbiblical but dangerous. There must be an authority on Scripture intepretation and the various denominations out there is proof that not everyone is guided by the Holy Spirit as we Christians like to believe
Me: Ok. Nowhere have I ever said personal interpretation is correct.
Yes, there is authority within the church and it should be used. And all this needs to be measured against the Bible itself. If God's Word is the ultimate authority then shouldn't we let it instruct us in the way we should go? (question).
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:38 PM #55
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Wil: http://www.whatisorange.org/statement-of-faith/

Took a lil bit of looking on my phone... O.o
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:46 PM #56
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The whole having to go to confession is weird to me. Jesus came to be the only mediator I need to have. And praying to Mary bothers me. Do you cheer for lets say Peyton Manning's mom? Sure Mary like many others did awesome work for God's kingdom, but she is not a part of the Trinity.

My .02˘
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:49 PM #57
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I'll add ya when I can get back to a computer and not my phone.
Merci
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:56 PM #58
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Wil: http://www.whatisorange.org/statement-of-faith/

Took a lil bit of looking on my phone... O.o
Whoa. I tried looking (also on the phone), but gave up.


And that wall of text was only possible because I tethered my phone to the pc.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:03 PM #59
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"I never compared anyone to David Koresh. You did. What I said was that studying the Bible for yourself prevents you from blindly following cult leaders like David Koresh (that you initially referenced). But on that note, I have seen how the RCC discourages its parishioners from studying the Bible because it is the priest's role to deliver the "studied" messages. I have heard from COUNTLESS RCC's who do not read, have a desire to read or even know anything about their Bibles outside of what the priest has told them. I USED to be catholic, my parents were catholic and my grandparents were catholic. So I can speak from first hand account."
---That's unfortunate if that had happened. The Catholic Church no where teaches you should not read the Bible. It does however say that you should not interpret Scripture outside the teachings of the Catholic Church. I can see how that can lead others to believe that the Catholic Church is saying don't read the Bible. But that's now what it means. It does mean that if you read the Bible and you can't just say definitively and with authourity this is what a verse or passage means. You can't just give an exegesis on Scripture just based on your private interpretations. I read the Bible every day and I'm Catholic. And I know a lot of Catholics who do the same. There are Bible studies in almost every parish in my Archdiocese. So I speak from experience as well. But I do admit that many Catholics not only don't read the Bible but don't even know what their Church teaches. In my opinion, the biggest case against Catholicism is Catholics themselves. But that still doesn't change the truth of the Catholic Church's teachings. It just means that myself included, the Catholic Church is full of sinners.

"Uh, no. Take a step back. Re-read. You made the claim that Sola Scriptura is unbiblical.....provide proof/evidence of or for this so we can begin to discuss."
--That is my challenge to you or anyone for that matter. There is NOTHING in Scripture that supports Sola Scriptura. If you can't provide me proof using the Bible to support the "Bible Alone" doctrine than it just proves my point.

"Can a man (any man) say something biblical/true/correct? Absolutely. Should you study their teachings as God's teaching (on par with His written Word)? Never. Man can and may study what other men have concluded, but you and I ALWAYS need to go back to the source (The Word of God) to know what God Himself says on the subject. I don't know if I'm making myself clear here."
---I think I get what your saying so no need to discuss further since the discussion on Sola Scriptura should cover anything else. But just for the record, so that it's clear, I do believe the Bible is the word of God and will not place anyone else's writings above it.

"Ok. Nowhere have I ever said personal interpretation is correct.
Yes, there is authority within the church and it should be used. And all this needs to be measured against the Bible itself. If God's Word is the ultimate authority then shouldn't we let it instruct us in the way we should go?"
---By saying God will guide me in how to interpret the Bible you are saying that personal interpretation is correct. Perhaps I'm just reading your post incorrectly if that's not what you meant. Again this just goes back to Sola Scriptura and I say show me in Scripture where it says God's Word is the "ultimate authority" in instructing Christians. I say there is nothing in the Bible that says that. You say there is. So in this scenario the evidence must be provided by you.

You say that there is a authority in the church. Which church are we talking about since there are literally thousands of Christian denominations world wide. Whose authority should we follow for proper Biblical interpretation?
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:15 PM #60
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Originally Posted by RLN View Post
The only relevant point to discuss further....for now:

"Uh, no. Take a step back. Re-read. You made the claim that Sola Scriptura is unbiblical.....provide proof/evidence of or for this so we can begin to discuss."
--That is my challenge to you or anyone for that matter. There is NOTHING in Scripture that supports Sola Scriptura. If you can't provide me proof using the Bible to support the "Bible Alone" doctrine than it just proves my point.



You say that there is a authority in the church. Which church are we talking about since there are literally thousands of Christian denominations world wide. Whose authority should we follow for proper Biblical interpretation?
I took the liberty of leaving the only 2 points to further the discussion.

Me: "Uh, no. Take a step back. Re-read. You made the claim that Sola Scriptura is unbiblical.....provide proof/evidence of or for this so we can begin to discuss."
You: That is my challenge to you or anyone for that matter. There is NOTHING in Scripture that supports Sola Scriptura. If you can't provide me proof using the Bible to support the "Bible Alone" doctrine than it just proves my point.
Me: Sorry but, no. If Sola Scriptura is NOT supported within Scripture, it would be against it. Let me rephrase the question then: Does the Bible support the notion of NOT using Sola Scriptura?

I do not want to start posting "pro" points without seeing the "cons".

let's set aside the "authority" issue(s) since that will fall AFTER the current discussion. Jut don't forget to bring it back up.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:20 PM #61
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Originally Posted by duos_scythe View Post
The whole having to go to confession is weird to me. Jesus came to be the only mediator I need to have. And praying to Mary bothers me. Do you cheer for lets say Peyton Manning's mom? Sure Mary like many others did awesome work for God's kingdom, but she is not a part of the Trinity.

My .02˘
Hi Dom. I can see how the whole confession is weird to you. The Catholic Church does teach that Jesus is the mediator. Amen to that! The doctrine of confession doesn't mean the priest is forgiving you. God is the only one that can forgive you for your sins. Instead the priest acts "Impersoni Christi" or "In the the person of Christ." Which means through the priests ordination Christ is the one who forgives the person confessing not the priest. This is rooted in Scripture first by taking a look at Matthew 9: 6-8. Take a look at verse 8 in particular. Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power "glorified God, who had given such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8; note the plural "men").

"As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:21–23). Here you see Jesus giving authority to the Apostles which the priesthood comes from.

Mary is another discussion. It's 5:15 am here and I need to at least get an hours rest before going in to work! All I can say that when Catholics "pray" to Mary or any other saint for that matter they are asking for that saint's prayers or intercession. They are not praying directly to the saint as if the saint is on par with Jesus. Now you can say why not go to Jesus directly? Which my response will be. Of course we go directly to Jesus, but it doesn't hurt to ask other people to pray for us does it? Just as members of Christ Krew ask for people to pray for them (intercede) to God so do Catholics ask saints to pray for them as well. And yes Catholics ask each other to pray for one another and I've asked other non-Catholic Christians to pray for me. Heck I've also prayed for muslim friends of mine when they are going through problems.

Okay....will be back in a few hours. Hopefully awake at my desk..hehe.
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Last edited by RLN : 10-16-2012 at 02:24 PM. Reason: can't spell...poor grammar....I'm sleepy
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:43 PM #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind26 View Post
I took the liberty of leaving the only 2 points to further the discussion.

Me: "Uh, no. Take a step back. Re-read. You made the claim that Sola Scriptura is unbiblical.....provide proof/evidence of or for this so we can begin to discuss."
You: That is my challenge to you or anyone for that matter. There is NOTHING in Scripture that supports Sola Scriptura. If you can't provide me proof using the Bible to support the "Bible Alone" doctrine than it just proves my point.
Me: Sorry but, no. If Sola Scriptura is NOT supported within Scripture, it would be against it. Let me rephrase the question then: Does the Bible support the notion of NOT using Sola Scriptura?

I do not want to start posting "pro" points without seeing the "cons".

let's set aside the "authority" issue(s) since that will fall AFTER the current discussion. Jut don't forget to bring it back up.
Barely got any rest. Anyways back to this discussion.

Since we're rephrasing statments let me rephrase my statement: There is nothing in Scripture that supports that the Bible is the only and ultimate authority for Christian doctrine and teaching. Sola Scriptura is not found in the Bible. If it is show me.

Now back to your "rephrased" question: "Does the Bible support the notion of NOT using Sola Scriptura?" You need to either agree with my statement above or correct it by showing me that the Bible does support it to answer your question. If it's not in the Bible then why follow it? After all isn't that what Sola Scriptura is all about? It must be in the Bible. Yet there is no support for the "Bible Alone" in the Bible.

Side note: I'll be heading to my office now. Will be back in a couple of hours.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:24 AM #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLN View Post
Barely got any rest. Anyways back to this discussion.

Since we're rephrasing statments let me rephrase my statement: There is nothing in Scripture that supports that the Bible is the only and ultimate authority for Christian doctrine and teaching. Sola Scriptura is not found in the Bible. If it is show me.

Now back to your "rephrased" question: "Does the Bible support the notion of NOT using Sola Scriptura?" You need to either agree with my statement above or correct it by showing me that the Bible does support it to answer your question. If it's not in the Bible then why follow it? After all isn't that what Sola Scriptura is all about? It must be in the Bible. Yet there is no support for the "Bible Alone" in the Bible.

Side note: I'll be heading to my office now. Will be back in a couple of hours.
I see what you did there, but not properly answering.
You are basically asking me to prove my point first before you prove yours.
You need to support your view since you made the claim first about Sola Scriptura not being found in the Bible.

I even rephrased the question for you to support your views and have a platform from where we can start. I would like to see where you base your views that
1) Sola Scriptura is unbiblical (which means the Bible speaks against it -directly or indirectly).
2) Other materials to support your views.

Lets start from there.
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Last edited by Mastermind26 : 10-17-2012 at 11:49 AM. Reason: grammar :(
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