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Old 10-11-2012, 11:04 PM #85
barrel roll
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You should be able to get the a+, network+, and security+ certs after a degree in computer sciences... right? Maybe?
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:11 PM #86
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Originally Posted by Overbear View Post
Because I can't see tafari's comments, he made anti-gay slurs and racist remarks so I added him to my ignore list.
I don't understand.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:31 PM #87
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You should be able to get the a+, network+, and security+ certs after a degree in computer sciences... right? Maybe?
Doubtful unless your program offers networking electives or you just read the ****ing training manuals.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:19 AM #88
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Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
And why did you quote me?
I really dislike how he fabricates things and declares me a "racist" and claims I make "anti-gay slurs". None of that is true.

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Originally Posted by Overbear View Post
Your comment was in line witht he general lack of understanding that it takes more than "a few computers" to put together and keep running a full network. As I said I know people with doctorates that could not do what I do.

*edit* its the general missconseption that "IT" people just repair computers. Try having to figure out the BTU output of a given rack in a raised floor server room, then compensate for that with a heavier stand alone A/C system while at the same time having to balance the power needs of said rack. Then figure in the airflow across the servers/san system in that rack, and calculate out how many U of space you neet to give up for proper flow. That is just a example of what I have to do before things just "bolt in" to the rack, let alone configuration, programing, and going live with a new network.
You are trying to make what you do sound far more complex than it is, and in the end sound like a fool.

What formulas and methods of calculation do you use to make these considerations?
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:45 AM #89
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You're only agreeing with my argument. You know more than people with a doctorate. I was saying you don't need a doctorate to know what people like you know. So... what's your point, exactly?

I know plenty of people who have worked in IT. Tell me, through your explanation there, does that require a higher education?
In going back and looking at what you were saying, I think I took your comments the wrong way. I can see you were basicly saying the same thing I was.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:50 AM #90
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Doubtful unless your program offers networking electives or you just read the ****ing training manuals.
I'm going to be getting those within the year, paid for by my employer. Whoopeeeee. Not really looking forward to it, but it will help me if I choose to go a different route in the future.

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I really dislike how he fabricates things and declares me a "racist" and claims I make "anti-gay slurs". None of that is true.



You are trying to make what you do sound far more complex than it is, and in the end sound like a fool.

What formulas and methods of calculation do you use to make these considerations?
Come on fancy engineer guy, you know EXACTLY what math has to be done to determine air flow requirements to keep a room full of hot electronics at a specified temp and humidity range.
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Last edited by barrel roll : 10-12-2012 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:57 AM #91
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You should be able to get the a+, network+, and security+ certs after a degree in computer sciences... right? Maybe?
The "IT" World is really not one you can get into with just a degree and a few certs. There is a hands on element, a day to day "Woops, now thats new" kind of think on your feet response you just can't teach people in a class/school.

As I said, I have had the guys with their big fancy degrees have to call me at 2am in the morning because they couldn't fix the most basic of problems. You take the case of almost every mechanical/design engineer and architect I have met. The guys that design everything we use every day, well 90% of them could not think outside the box if they tried. They panic when a tiny thing goes wrong with their cad/revit system (oh yea, someone had to write the software they use to design things) and who do they call to fix it, guys like me.

You know what we do, we fix it with a smile on our faces, and a kind word. Then we go back to our offices, and laugh our ***** off together about what a ****ing idiot you are. (ever hear someone say it was a Eye-Dee-Ten-Tee problem, or a layer 9 error, or a KTFI problem)
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A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:58 AM #92
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Come on fancy engineer guy, you know EXACTLY what math has to be done to determine air flow requirements to keep a room full of hot electronics at a specified temp and humidity range.
I know how I do thermal analysis. I was curious to know what methods he uses, because he sounds like he is full of **** to me.

Also, there is no need to be upset.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:02 AM #93
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I meant to put a smiley face in there. Forums are horrible with the conveyance of emotion.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:33 AM #94
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Originally Posted by Tafari Makonnen View Post
I know how I do thermal analysis. I was curious to know what methods he uses, because he sounds like he is full of **** to me.

Also, there is no need to be upset.
If you're really Habesha then I understand why you think there was no reason for Overbear get upset by what you said, otherwise you are being a tool.

All he was saying is that sometimes experience is more important that school. But I can also agree with you that some professions are best learned in school.

As an example, chemistry is not something to learn on your own if you value your fingers and eyeballs.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:45 AM #95
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My job requires me to take abstract problems and develop concrete solutions based on limited information and outdated systems. Also requires teamwork, collaboration, mathematics, and understanding of complex equipment and system constraints.

The point of an education is it drives people to think a certain way, and companies like hiring those types of people.

Also: ITT we have a dick measuring contest between the educated vs the experienced
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:47 AM #96
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If you're really Habesha then I understand why you think there was no reason for Overbear get upset by what you said, otherwise you are being a tool.

All he was saying is that sometimes experience is more important that school. But I can also agree with you that some professions are best learned in school.

As an example, chemistry is not something to learn on your own if you value your fingers and eyeballs.
The issue I have with overbear is that he is throwing a bunch of jargon around and making **** up to make his job sound far more difficult than it is. IT work is like being a mechanic, you learn how to do it by doing it, and pretending someone who doesn't know how to salve a problem with a network is an idiot is foolish, because it is simply a matter of familiarity with the stuff involved.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:50 AM #97
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As an example, chemistry is not something to learn on your own if you value your fingers and eyeballs.
Now that I can agree with
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A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

Armed gays don't get bashed - www.pinkpistols.org

ssgaR: 'faith is the path of least resistance'."

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Old 10-12-2012, 10:52 AM #98
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Originally Posted by Tafari Makonnen View Post
it is simply a matter of familiarity with the stuff involved.
You just described literally everything in the ****ing universe.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:55 AM #99
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Also,

Experience is education. There is no dichotomy. This is only a dick measuring contest over relative difficulty. Which has absolutely dick to do with requiring a degree.

Last edited by Iamamartianchurch : 10-12-2012 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:56 AM #100
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dick measuring contest
Oh...where can I be the one to hold the ruler?
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"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Thomas Jefferson

A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

Armed gays don't get bashed - www.pinkpistols.org

ssgaR: 'faith is the path of least resistance'."

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Old 10-12-2012, 10:57 AM #101
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

You just described literally everything in the ****ing universe.
Not really. What if the problem proposed is unfamiliar, abstract, as never been tested before? In the real world, that's how businesses succeed.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:02 AM #102
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Not really. What if the problem proposed is unfamiliar, abstract, as never been tested before? In the real world, that's how businesses succeed.
What do you think happens when you problem solve?
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:05 AM #103
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Originally Posted by Matt.is.back2011 View Post
My job requires me to take abstract problems and develop concrete solutions based on limited information and outdated systems. Also requires teamwork, collaboration, mathematics, and understanding of complex equipment and system constraints.

The point of an education is it drives people to think a certain way, and companies like hiring those types of people.

Also: ITT we have a dick measuring contest between the educated vs the experienced
You explained, in generic terms, what I did in the military.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:05 AM #104
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
You just described literally everything in the ****ing universe.
So can you see the problem when he says things like this:

Quote:
You know what we do, we fix it with a smile on our faces, and a kind word. Then we go back to our offices, and laugh our ***** off together about what a ****ing idiot you are.
I don't go around talking **** about the IT people in my office because they don't understand or know how to do my job. IT is very much a trade like being a machanic, machinist, or whatever. Engineering, chemistry, medicine, and things like that require a formal education.
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Last edited by Tafari Makonnen : 10-12-2012 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:09 AM #105
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So can you see the problem when he says things like this:



I don't go around talking **** about the IT people in my office because they don't understand or know how to do my job.
The problem I see is trying to compare the difficulty of the task at hand to the necessity of attaining a formal education from a university or lack there of.
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