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Old 10-10-2012, 12:46 AM #22
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I'm being serious
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:44 AM #23
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True conservatives including me want to go back to colonial life in America. My ancestors came here in the early 1600's, so part of me knows what it's like.
Have fun with that, I appreciate my washing machine and A/C.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:27 AM #24
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True conservatives including me want to go back to colonial life in America. My ancestors came here in the early 1600's, so part of me knows what it's like.
OK.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:04 AM #25
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:19 AM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quakcer View Post
My ancestors came here in the early 1600's, so part of me knows what it's like.
Kind of like how black people nowadays know what slavery is like.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:37 AM #27
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You're not describing the beliefs that most who call themselves conservative subscribe to. There are many conservatives in this country who are die-hard on holding onto tradition and oppose any rapid social/economic change. What you're describing is the mindset of the modern day libertarian.
A clear distinction has to be made between conservatives and neo-conservatives. Just because someone doesn't know the difference between the two DOES NOT MEAN there is no difference, or the use of one name to describe both is correct.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:56 AM #28
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I don't know if he is making this point, but, I definitely see attempts to merge libertarianism and conservatism.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:08 PM #29
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When I say conservative, I mean neo-conservative as that's a pretty good generalization of the majority of the modern conservatives mindset (Tuff, Swerve, etc).
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:52 PM #30
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True conservatives including me want to go back to colonial life in America. My ancestors came here in the early 1600's, so part of me knows what it's like.
That's not conservative, that's just being a radical reactionary.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:45 PM #31
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True conservatives including me want to go back to colonial life in America. My ancestors came here in the early 1600's, so part of me knows what it's like.
Drop the "c" in your screen name to convince us.

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A clear distinction has to be made between conservatives and neo-conservatives.
And between classical conservatives versus modern conservatives (of all stripes), classical liberals versus modern liberals (who may be better characterized as "progressives"), and libertarians versus liberals (of all stripes).

Martian, I disagree with your premise. I don't see classical conservativism as inherently contrary to libertarianism. If a libertarian mindset is the starting point (as I could argue was the case with America immediately after independence), remaining at or near that state would be consistent with conservative thought, no?

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Old 10-10-2012, 07:05 PM #32
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Is op talking about fiscal or social liberal policy?
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:06 AM #33
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Drop the "c" in your screen name to convince us.



And between classical conservatives versus modern conservatives (of all stripes), classical liberals versus modern liberals (who may be better characterized as "progressives"), and libertarians versus liberals (of all stripes).

Martian, I disagree with your premise. I don't see classical conservativism as inherently contrary to libertarianism. If a libertarian mindset is the starting point (as I could argue was the case with America immediately after independence), remaining at or near that state would be consistent with conservative thought, no?

custar
Would you please give me a definition of classical conservative? I've only ever heard classical liberal.


As to the very last part: I don't know. On one hand, America after it won independence was what we call classically liberal(Republicanism, rights, etc etc). On the other hand, the social structure was fairly conservative. It was hierarchical, resembling the familiar European aristocracy of the time.

In my mind. True conservatives are traditionalists. Otherwise what are they but yesterday's liberals?

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Old 10-11-2012, 09:17 AM #34
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Is op talking about fiscal or social liberal policy?
What the hell IS fiscal conservatism/liberalism?
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:19 AM #35
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What the hell IS fiscal conservatism/liberalism?
I've been asking myself this for years.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:28 AM #36
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Fiscal Conservatism is low government taxation and spending with a surplus.
Fiscal Liberalism is high government taxation and spending and government living within it's means.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:30 AM #37
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Fiscal Conservatism is low government taxation and spending with a surplus.
Fiscal Liberalism is high government taxation and spending and government living outside of its means.
fixed
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:51 AM #38
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Fiscal Conservatism is low government taxation and spending with a surplus.
Fiscal Liberalism is high government taxation and spending and government living within it's means.
I don't believe there is an inherent economic policy within conservatism or liberalism. Especially in light of my OP. This is all besides the point I was making which has nothing to do with fiscal policy or philosophy.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:55 AM #39
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fixed
So where was Clinton on this? Was he a moderate fiscally, because he raised taxes and had a surplus? Was Reagan also a moderate, because he raised the debt and lowered taxes?
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:57 AM #40
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So where was Clinton on this? Was he a moderate fiscally, because he raised taxes and had a surplus? Was Reagan also a moderate, because he raised the debt and lowered taxes?
yes
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:04 PM #41
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So where was Clinton on this? Was he a moderate fiscally, because he raised taxes and had a surplus? Was Reagan also a moderate, because he raised the debt and lowered taxes?
Technically the surplus under Clinton is credited to Ginrich balancing the budget and dot com boom.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:14 PM #42
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Technically the surplus under Clinton is credited to Ginrich balancing the budget and dot com boom.
And it's also directly proportional to defense cuts taken by Clinton.
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