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Old 02-12-2013, 07:09 PM #64
jmac
 
 
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As was said its hard to bump a team up to majors when your roster changes every year.

I haven't played on a team with more than 5 people returning ever. Since I've been playing. I've playing with random mixes of the same people every year.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:20 PM #65
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But that's not a league issue it's a team issue. There needs to be a way for the league to grow. With out a form of relegation there will always be 18 minors and a handful of majors. While its great to have new teams, mine being one of them, if teams stay in minors and keep winning, why would new teams that are building want to stay.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:46 PM #66
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I don't really think that's the issue here. The issue is that too many teams left Majors. We're going into our second season in foXball we got third place on the season last year and we're rebuilding half our roster for the third year in a row. It's hard to keep a team together, and if you bump too soon it's harder to keep guys on the same page after a -10 or worse day.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:47 PM #67
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Let me try to answer the “Ranking” question.

First – the APPA system doesn’t currently work (in my opinion) for a league that is run such as foXball – a season as opposed to many individual tournaments.

Second – I believe in the APPA system and the need for a central ranking system. I currently use it for our 5-man events, which are individual tournaments that lead to a series winner.

Third – we require Minor League teams to have rosters of D3 players and lower. That means we check the rosters against the APPA system. Minor League teams are allowed one (1) “Open” player with the intent of helping “train” the younger talent.

It’s true – if a player only played foXball they would never “graduate” in the APPA system. However, any player that only plays foXball, and doesn’t play other events that utilize the APPA system, most likely isn’t taking the sport seriously.

Promotion/Demotion doesn’t work at a team level locally due to the one issue many have already brought up – to many players jumping around from team to team, dropping in and out of paintball from year to year. That’s why we use the individual players APPA ranking as a “base” to work off of.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:51 PM #68
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Chief is correct - several teams opted out of the league this year.

Being a realist I'd guess I've done something wrong. Not offering what the customer, you players, want. Or maybe someone else just offered something that was to good to pass up. However, for that answer you'd need to ask NEAA, Rush and Section 8 - who all opted out of foXball for another local league.

OI has opted out of foXball to focus on PSP events.

Lobsters imploded (?).
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:09 PM #69
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I agree with Dave about the APPA system-
In the NCPA our regional events work as a season series. On APPA, that results in a placing of "0 out of 5" or however many teams are in the league. However, NCPA is also D5- so it doesn't really negatively affect your rank.
Last season, I thought that last season using the APPA sign in sheet was pretty well done. The only way I could see it working differently is if the 2011 season method, where teams got all the points at the end of the season; IE, 5th out of 6 for every event.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:38 PM #70
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I don't think the product or what you give your customers is the issue. If a way for teams to grow can be established would be good, but yes people in the northeast do bounce around team to team so it is tough to maintain that growth as a team...
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:45 PM #71
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You also have to consider the costs involved with Majors vs Minors. For some the difference in entry fees is a turnoff, b/c you are playing the same amount of PB as the Minors, but against better teams. You can play twice as much paintball playing Minors and Nexl for approx. the same entry costs as Majors. Compare this to the entry fees for D4X and D3X in the PSP (same amount of games, same price)

Also the teams that want to play PSP seriously are taking advantage of NEXL giving PSP season points, so that they can get better seeding in PSP by playing in the NEXL.

I know the reason we did not bump up as planned was roster turnover and lack of veteran talent to really be competitive (not cost). As such we stayed Minors and will be playing D4X in NEXL. This also allows me to run a larger pool of players since we have twice as many events to attend, and not everyone can go to everything.

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Old 02-13-2013, 05:19 PM #72
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Greg - I understand the argument (to some point) about earning seed points...but to the best of my knowledge - if you want to be the best you need to beat the best - doesnt' really matter when you do it - in the prelims or the playoffs.

We (187) had no seed points going into Chicago when we played D2 and managed to do ok.
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:49 PM #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox4paintball View Post
Greg - I understand the argument (to some point) about earning seed points...but to the best of my knowledge - if you want to be the best you need to beat the best - doesnt' really matter when you do it - in the prelims or the playoffs.

We (187) had no seed points going into Chicago when we played D2 and managed to do ok.

What was that? 1st place? And was undefeated all season long that year.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:03 PM #74
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As far as seeding goes, I don't know how much it helps you outside of PRO only because you don't really know who is playing in the division or what bracket you end up in until everyone is registered.
Evan, we had 1 loss in D2 against Dallas Roots in Chicago.
----

It looks like we have the same # of teams as last year so far.

We put in A LOT of work to run this series and I want teams playing to realize that we always try to improve year in and year out.
We always try to make all our tournaments as fair and competitive for everyone participating.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:10 PM #75
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Noel,I knew there was one or two some where in there. I was thinking over all out come, placing 1st in all three events 187 played. None the less with no seed points at all.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:42 PM #76
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Unfortunately, as well as ShipYard did last year, we're largely in the same boat as Rod Squad, I have 5 guys returning from last year and trying to break in a new coach... Hopefully we can preform well this year, keep 7-8 of the guys together and bump to majors next year.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:51 PM #77
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foxball

i think the reason some teams might be moving over to nexl is the structuring is more like psp. when foxball first started it was modeled after axbl. there was a huge demand for this type of format. now axbl is all but forgotten and without a national series supporting this format, foxball has become a standalone local series.
like everything else you need to be constantly evolving to stay on top. i think foxball has some fundamental advatages that will always keep it successful. the professional manner in which the field/tourneys are run, and outstanding reffing. these are what gives foxball a solid foundation. keeping your finger on the pulse of what's popular, is what makes it hot now. just my 2cents.
personally i love the format and have no intention of playing anywhere else; but i'm def. outdated. still running around with my o7 ego.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:06 PM #78
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As for the NEXL vs FOXBALL talk and why teams play one format or the other, I will say that the primary driving force for NEXL is the cost. At $1000 a team it's really cheap. I know that the value of Foxball exceeds that of NEXL, but it is what it is. And yes Rod Squad is playing in both leagues. NEXL is just to cheap to pass on.

BTW Dave you and your staff do a fantastic job running your tournament series. I will always play FOXBALL as long as you offer it.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:23 PM #79
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Charlie,

Thanks for the kind words.

I understand the attractiveness of the low entry. But does no one value their time? or the extra cases of paint you'll shoot?

I ran a one off x-ball event (psp style race to 4) last year with 6 teams and it took a good portion of the day. I can't imagine doing it with 10 teams per field. Games will start early and end late.

I even remember an event a team decided not to play the playoffs - I think it was for 3rd/4th place because they didn't want to spend the money on paint.

Just seems like there is a lot more to the cost of an event then the entry price.

No worries - I'm happy to see so many x-ball teams in New England. I'm hopeful that with the 45 or so x-ball teams we can get the attention of the PSP and maybe get an event a little closer in the future.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:59 PM #80
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I don't see how the entry is any cheaper, once you add in ID costs for ten guys your at 1300 and no one has a jersey.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:00 PM #81
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It is very good to see so many teams in New England. I hadn't thought about the logistics of getting 30 teams to play 3 matches in one day plus finals. Hopefully Anthony and Lori got it figured out. Time will tell.

Shipyard, you are right.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:15 PM #82
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30 teams 2 fields. All I know is that 5 man with 20 teams doesn't finish with there finals to almost 5pm... Idk how they are going to do it... All I know is that foxball is proven and I have never heard a complaint about it. Part of the reason why we chose to come over and play when we decided to make the jump to xball..
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:46 PM #83
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There are a few different reasons why,we, NEAA (newly names Armageddon), decided to "leave" foXball Majors.

1. We are going to be focusing more on PSP
2. NeXl is cheaper upfront and gives seeding points for PSP (so why not take advantage of that?)
3. foXball was costing us to much money upfront
4. we absolutely did not have the funding to play 3 leagues, two of which would have been 4+ events

If it was only up to me i would have had us play all 3, but it is hard enough for us to afford practice all the time let alone all the events. So we weighed the pro's and the con's and the pro's of what we chose slightly outweighed the con's.

and chief, id cards are good for both PSP and nexl so it makes sense since its a PSP affiliated league, and you save money on them compared to just buying a PSP ID at an event. jerseys do not matter to us, granted we are getting new ones do to the name change, but you can use any jersey. And in what world does $1300=$2500? it would not be a big deal if we did not plan on playing PSPs, but since we are, we need to penny pinch. now when we look at our numbers and money spent at the end of this season and for some reason spent a ton more on NeXl than we did fox ball, we will have to reevaluate playing any local leagues for next season.

Also I played NeXl last season along with foXball, and I have to say I loved playing both, but the reffing at Foxball was much much better in my opinion, but it is a new season and hopefully change will come along with it, or ill just have to work on shooting people in more obvious spots lol. As for the whole to many teams in 1 day thing, this isnt 7 man, its a timed race to format, last year ran very smooth, granted there was a lot less teams, but I have the upmost confidence that finishing all the matches during the daylight hours will not be a problem. I am not trying to stick up for one league over the other here, because I wish there to be one singular race-to league in new england, where both teams from fox ball and nexl could merge and play.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:59 PM #84
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There are inherent benefits in either league and most of the points being brought up are valid. For some teams, the NEXL offers them the local competition that they want with benefits for the national events that they also play. Some teams might just want a chance to play World Cup.

For others, Foxball is appealing because of the league structure, the price, and it offers the level of competition that they're after. Maybe they find the money to PE appealing.

You can debate it all you want, but they are two different businesses with different models trying to attract the same player base. People are always going to value certain things differently - hence the rift.

NEAA makes some great points, so do teams in favor of Foxball.

At the end of the day we need to applaud both the NEXL and Fox4 for giving us the opportunity to choose. We're very fortunate.
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