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Old 10-03-2012, 11:16 AM #1
TheSilentAssassin
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PA voter ID laws pushed back

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/02/politi...-id/index.html

In his ruling, Simpson granted a preliminary injunction that temporarily halts enforcement of the law until after the November 6 election. He cited likely disqualification of eligible voters as the reason. "Notably, the court's ruling accepts the principle that the voter ID rules are legal. Unfortunately, the timing of the change meant that Pennsylvanians will have to wait one more election cycle before they can be sure their elections are fraud-free," Cooper said.

This probably didn't help their cause:


Thoughts?
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:32 PM #2
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PA has always been back-asswards. I mean for as long as it has been the state of Pennsylvania.
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Old 10-03-2012, 01:45 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/02/politi...-id/index.html

In his ruling, Simpson granted a preliminary injunction that temporarily halts enforcement of the law until after the November 6 election. He cited likely disqualification of eligible voters as the reason. "Notably, the court's ruling accepts the principle that the voter ID rules are legal. Unfortunately, the timing of the change meant that Pennsylvanians will have to wait one more election cycle before they can be sure their elections are fraud-free," Cooper said.

This probably didn't help their cause:


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Old 10-03-2012, 10:20 PM #4
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We can all agree this is a Repub scheme to lower Obama's votes. That's obvious.


But that aside is there anything generally wrong with having people prove who they are? You have to have an ID to buy tobacco and beer, but not to carry out the most important civic duty? Although I don't believe it should be put into law until there's a free, easy to get ID for everyone.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:43 AM #5
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I live in a state that requires a photo ID to vote. I see where it could become a problem if you lack initiative or resources because you need to submit a birth certificate, social security card, and two proofs of residency in order to get a card.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:19 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsbalr120 View Post
We can all agree this is a Repub scheme to lower Obama's votes. That's obvious.


But that aside is there anything generally wrong with having people prove who they are? You have to have an ID to buy tobacco and beer, but not to carry out the most important civic duty? Although I don't believe it should be put into law until there's a free, easy to get ID for everyone.
It's not hard to get an ID: http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/voter/voteridlaw.shtml Honestly, I don't know how people without any form of photo ID function in society. Even if you don't drive, you still need ID to buy a number of things, to open a bank account, etc.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:02 PM #7
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Personally I have no problem with voter ID laws going in, just not a month before a presidential election.

"-Identification issued by the United States Government that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.*

- Identification issued by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired (unless issued by the Department of Transportation, then the expiration of the identification cannot be more than 12 months past the expiration date).

- Identification issued by a municipality of this Commonwealth to an employee of that municipality that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.

- Identification issued by an accredited Pennsylvania public or private institution of higher learning that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.

- Identification issued by a Pennsylvania care facility that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired."

To be frank, that is a lot to put together in a month. And let's be honest, the Pennsylvanian governor said the laws were going to make Romney win. It's clearly partisan and shady. The judge made the right call. Pass a good law that prevents voter fraud but do it in a way that makes it possible for people to comply.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:43 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36 View Post
I live in a state that requires a photo ID to vote. I see where it could become a problem if you lack initiative or resources because you need to submit a birth certificate, social security card, and two proofs of residency in order to get a card.
Yes, the point of an ID card is there is a modicum of difficulty in getting one, so as to confirm that the holder is in fact the person on the card.

Voting does not require positive individual identification, it merely requires qualification. So individual IDs are unnecessarily restrictive impediments to voting and are proven to be damaging to the voting cohort.

Qualification, primarily citizenship, can and should be judged by simple attestation, and if any enforcement is needed (though research shows fraud numbers so low, it isn't), it should be through random post-facto checks.

Quote:
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To be frank, that is a lot to put together in a month. And let's be honest, the Pennsylvanian governor said the laws were going to make Romney win. It's clearly partisan and shady. The judge made the right call. Pass a good law that prevents voter fraud but do it in a way that makes it possible for people to comply.
Being that voter fraud of this type is basically nonexistent, how can they pass a law to prevent it?
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:15 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
Personally I have no problem with voter ID laws going in, just not a month before a presidential election.

"-Identification issued by the United States Government that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.*

- Identification issued by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired (unless issued by the Department of Transportation, then the expiration of the identification cannot be more than 12 months past the expiration date).

- Identification issued by a municipality of this Commonwealth to an employee of that municipality that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.

- Identification issued by an accredited Pennsylvania public or private institution of higher learning that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.

- Identification issued by a Pennsylvania care facility that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired."

To be frank, that is a lot to put together in a month. And let's be honest, the Pennsylvanian governor said the laws were going to make Romney win. It's clearly partisan and shady. The judge made the right call. Pass a good law that prevents voter fraud but do it in a way that makes it possible for people to comply.
Weren't those disjunctive? That is, a would-be voter only had to provide one such item, not all specified items?

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Old 10-06-2012, 12:31 PM #10
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Yes, the point of an ID card is there is a modicum of difficulty in getting one, so as to confirm that the holder is in fact the person on the card.

Voting does not require positive individual identification, it merely requires qualification. So individual IDs are unnecessarily restrictive impediments to voting and are proven to be damaging to the voting cohort.

Qualification, primarily citizenship, can and should be judged by simple attestation, and if any enforcement is needed (though research shows fraud numbers so low, it isn't), it should be through random post-facto checks.



Being that voter fraud of this type is basically nonexistent, how can they pass a law to prevent it?
If you cannot figure out how to obtain an I.D. in the U.S.A. you do not need to be voting on how money is being spent. Seriously.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:54 PM #11
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If you cannot figure out how to obtain an I.D. in the U.S.A. you do not need to be voting on how money is being spent. Seriously.
I'm sick of this sort of anti-liberty rhetoric. Voting is a right, not a privileged to those who can afford it.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:58 PM #12
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I'm sick of this sort of anti-liberty rhetoric. Voting is a right, not a privileged to those who can afford it.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:55 PM #13
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I'm sick of this sort of anti-liberty rhetoric. Voting is a right, not a privileged to those who can afford it.
Afford it? What is there to afford when acquiring an ID? There are social programs at work that will allow you to have one at zero cost.

Even if you think voting is a right, then fine, everyone who is a U.S. citizen can vote. We just need to make sure you're a citizen first, just show us an I.D.

Not hard.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:10 PM #14
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sad how the party that freed the slaves now tries to suppress their votes
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:55 PM #15
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Afford it? What is there to afford when acquiring an ID? There are social programs at work that will allow you to have one at zero cost.

Even if you think voting is a right, then fine, everyone who is a U.S. citizen can vote. We just need to make sure you're a citizen first, just show us an I.D.

Not hard.
First - why even bother?

Secondly, an ID isn't requisite to citizenship. There is absolutely no need to require US citizens to have ID.

Third, there are other costs involved in getting an ID. Traveling costs, taking off from work, arranging other documents (replacement birth certificate, etc). Do we really something as inefficient as the DMV running elections?

It's voter suppression, very plain, and very simple. It's a false solution to a non-existent problem. "Oops, I forgot my ID". "Oops, I lost my ID". It is very clearly a mechanism to minimize the voice of the poor.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:05 PM #16
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Do we really something as inefficient as the DMV running elections?
In which state is the DMV running elections?

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Old 10-08-2012, 10:09 PM #17
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First - why even bother?

Secondly, an ID isn't requisite to citizenship. There is absolutely no need to require US citizens to have ID.
Except how do we know you're a citizen if you can't prove it? As far as I'm concerned, if you can't prove you're a citizen, you aren't one.
Secondly, 20 million illegals in this country means having ID is necessary. But that would mean all those illegal votes couldn't go to the democrats, so that makes sense you'd be against having to show ID.

Last edited by quakcer : 10-08-2012 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:43 AM #18
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Except how do we know you're a citizen if you can't prove it?
Tough question, and I don't have an answer. I do know that the correct answer doesn't involve hastily pushing a law through weeks before an election.


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Secondly, 20 million illegals in this country means having ID is necessary. But that would mean all those illegal votes couldn't go to the democrats, so that makes sense you'd be against having to show ID.
Yet we don't have any evidence of this actually happening. What would an illegal have to gain by voting? Risk detection by INS? Do you really think 20 million illegal immigrants are voting? Do you think even more than a few dozen are voting? Let's try to get a grasp on reality here.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:48 AM #19
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Yet we don't have any evidence of this actually happening. What would an illegal have to gain by voting? Risk detection by INS? Do you really think 20 million illegal immigrants are voting? Do you think even more than a few dozen are voting? Let's try to get a grasp on reality here.
I'm sure a lot of them do vote, and if there's that many of them it's possible it could sway the outcome of the election. That's why even though there aren't many documented cases of voter fraud, the main purpose is to prevent it from happening in the first place so we don't have to rely on giving the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:52 AM #20
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the main purpose is to prevent it from happening in the first place so we don't have to rely on giving the benefit of the doubt.
This is how liberties are lost
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:56 AM #21
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I'm sure a lot of them do vote, and if there's that many of them it's possible it could sway the outcome of the election.
Evidence?
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