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Old 10-01-2012, 06:06 PM #1
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Watching PumP Footage. Why all cockers?

Hello.

I pose this question specifically to "tournament" pump paintball players. Or those familiar with Tournament pump paintball general practices.

Im watching PSP pump divisional matches on Youtube. And everything I bring up, the majority of players are shooting pump converted cockers.

Im a Cocker shooter myself for over 15 years. I've also owned and LOVED Pantoms, Nelsons, Line SI etc.

Im playing in the Open Pump division at World Cup this year and find myself arming up for it.

I have many Cocker bodies sitting around but not pump kits, i've been looking at this Phantom package but cant decide the proper route for me.

Any suggestions as to why Cockers dominate 95% of the tourney pump footage I find online?
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:14 PM #2
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Probably because you can find cockers for cheap and put a pump kit on it.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:22 PM #3
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Cockers are the closest to a typical speedball setup and use what most of us already have. Tanks, hoppers, and barrel kits... They're readily available and convenient.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:25 PM #4
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try playing fast action tourney style pump with a nelson. the game has changed to "fast" pumps with semi ergonomics. not saying that you can't compete with with a nelson but make sure you understand the shortcomings of the design. you won't be dumping paint like the guys running snipers.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:15 PM #5
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U can do anything to a cocker play open stock class aautotrigger no auto trigger constant air or hpr set up barrels are cheap parts are cheap and they are easy to maintain and work on
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:16 PM #6
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Use whatever is most comfortable to you.
See ya at cup!
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:25 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =DaveP= View Post
Im watching PSP pump divisional matches on Youtube. And everything I bring up, the majority of players are shooting pump converted cockers.
Question for you...
What games are you watching? on Youtube?

Personally I'm too cheap and too stubborn to buy a CCM or MVP not to mention I like the idea of fine tuning a home-built cocker to shoot as good or better than those high dollar markers or at least shooting those that shoot them.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:43 PM #8
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:54 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rec hater View Post
U can do anything to a cocker. play open or stock class. Have an autotrigger no auto trigger. constant air or hpr set up, barrels are cheap, parts are cheap and they are easy to maintain and work on
This sums it up pretty well. albeit poorly written. there is nothing wrong with nelsons, But on the PSP level your gonna want a nice A/T. the majority of the teams will just be rolling their guns. THIS ISNT woodsball pump. This is a totally new game that has emerged in the past decade. Its still nothing like playing semi but alot more action packed, than formats of the past



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one word: CCM
those are reserved for the players who want the best, they aren't for everyone....
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:09 PM #10
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those are reserved for the players who want the best, they aren't for everyone....
Some jerk was using a BL MVP in this video @ 30 seconds
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:13 PM #11
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Thanks for the input guys. I guess I was implying when I said "Nelson" that I didnt mean the finger cocking 12 gram pistol.

But more like a Phantom with AT and Undercocking kit, with the tank set up like a electronic marker for ergonomic familiarity.

The vids I been catching are pump finals I searched "psp pump" in youtube. Some LA Hitmen footage (most of them shoot cockers with 16" to 18" barrels).

Like I said I've got cockers and parts to make more but was just wondering how markers like Phantoms got pushed out of favor by tourney players.

Was hoping to hear specifics. Thanks again.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:58 PM #12
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Most players that use phantoms tend to have it in the around the barrel configuration because, well it is the most common. Local tourneys, Spring pump event, etc... 9 out 10 phantoms will be in the normal around the barrel setup.

I personally only use my phantom for stockclass or modified stock class configuration. Why? It's really a preference thing, it feels really strange to use a phantom with a hopper, full size tank, and UC kit. The balance is very awkward. It's just way too much for a phantom. My CCM on the other hand, feels natural with a 45/4500 and rotor. In short, it's a comfort thing.

For cup, shoot whatever you feel most comfortable with.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:23 AM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilAuthorityX View Post
try playing fast action tourney style pump with a nelson. the game has changed to "fast" pumps with semi ergonomics. not saying that you can't compete with with a nelson but make sure you understand the shortcomings of the design. you won't be dumping paint like the guys running snipers.
Actually a nelson can dump just about as much paint as a sniper, just not as smoothly or reliably.

OP the reason is the same reason semiauto nelsons never took off. The nelson valvetrain is too clunky compared to the sheridan. Requires more force to cock and that translates into poorer accuracy over many shots and especially when shooting quickly, reduced durability and also translates to more chops. In my experience Nelsons are also harder on paint in general even if you get the paint loaded fine.

Also should you happen to get a break, it's far easier to clean out a sniper, either on the field or off it.
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Old 10-02-2012, 01:08 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
Actually a nelson can dump just about as much paint as a sniper, just not as smoothly or reliably.

OP the reason is the same reason semiauto nelsons never took off. The nelson valvetrain is too clunky compared to the sheridan. Requires more force to cock and that translates into poorer accuracy over many shots and especially when shooting quickly, reduced durability and also translates to more chops. In my experience Nelsons are also harder on paint in general even if you get the paint loaded fine.

Also should you happen to get a break, it's far easier to clean out a sniper, either on the field or off it.
thats what i said?
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:53 AM #15
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Good points fellas thats what I needed to hear. I'll just blast fools with a cocker then haha!

Thanks!!
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Old 10-02-2012, 04:47 PM #16
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thats what i said?
You can "dump" as much paint with a nelson as a sniper.
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Old 10-02-2012, 04:56 PM #17
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Quote:
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not saying that you can't compete with with a nelson but make sure you understand the shortcomings of the design.
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Actually a nelson can dump just about as much paint as a sniper, just not as smoothly or reliably
Basically you guys are saying the same thing, which Evil is right. Yes you could shoot as much paint with a nelson, BUT the sniper will do it faster, easier and more reliably. So in a 5 minute game you can shoot more paint with a sniper than you can with a nelson.

I can easily empty my rotor and 4 pods in a 5 minute game with my CCM S6.5
I might be able to shoot 1 hopper on a phantom in the same amount of time, but i probibly couldnt do that 2 games in a row. Maybe some of the other nelsons are better, BUT personally i cant "dump" paint with a nelson. hell i can barely shoot a 50rnd hopper in a game with my phantom
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:29 PM #18
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Basically you guys are saying the same thing, which Evil is right. Yes you could shoot as much paint with a nelson, BUT the sniper will do it faster, easier and more reliably. So in a 5 minute game you can shoot more paint with a sniper than you can with a nelson.

I can easily empty my rotor and 4 pods in a 5 minute game with my CCM S6.5
I might be able to shoot 1 hopper on a phantom in the same amount of time, but i probibly couldnt do that 2 games in a row. Maybe some of the other nelsons are better, BUT personally i cant "dump" paint with a nelson. hell i can barely shoot a 50rnd hopper in a game with my phantom
No, it won't do it faster, both guns can shoot up to the maximum ROF the human arm can provide (about 9 bps). The Phantom believe it or not never was the best nelson, it's just the nelson that survived. High ROF is not a priority of the Phantom design but other nelsons have been able to pound out paint better.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:54 PM #19
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agreed
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:18 PM #20
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ive got both a phantom setup for open class and parts for stock class and cockers. the phantom is fun to play with but even with a freak back isnt as competitive as any of my cockers. then again ive always liked the heavier guns, easier for me to aim with. upgraded cockers give the ergonomics of a speedball gun but the challenge of a pump and many parts to choose from
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:59 PM #21
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Also should you happen to get a break, it's far easier to clean out a sniper, either on the field or off it.
This is a big pull too.. With how brittle that paint can be at PSP events you want to be able to clean your gun out quickly if needed. If I break something in my barrel or chop a ball with my bolt all I have to do is pull the bolt out and clean it quick.. With the phantoms if you chop a ball and its on the bolt... Well you're in for a good cleaning.. I can't speak for how quick you can dump paint tho. Our team generally shoots about 60 rounds a person per game. Rotors just aren't our thing.. We like our winchesters We shoot CCM's but the auto triggers are more for the double tap while bunkering or for when we get into tight spots.. Plus the fact that 90% of the time outside of PSP's we play against semi teams so it helps to have an equalizer.
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