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Old 10-05-2012, 12:55 AM #64
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:44 AM #65
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Originally Posted by Ch4s3 View Post
I want a legit discussion lets hear it.

My Point-

To whom say alcoholism is a "disease"

Alcoholism and other compulsive problems are fundamentally self destructive behavior, not an incurable illness.

AA is confusing self destructive behavior with an incurable illness, by Scientific definition behavior isn't a disease.

"There is no medical test for addiction: no brain scan or blood screening that enables a doctor to detect its presence.
And the disease model doesn’t just fail to meet scientific criteria: it doesn’t pass the common sense test, either.

Suppose an alcoholic kills a child while driving drunk. He can wave a certificate signed by every addiction specialist in the country testifying that his actions were involuntary because he has the disease of addiction. Quite rightly, it won’t make a blind bit of difference to the verdict.

But imagine that someone suffering from coronary disease has a heart attack at the wheel and kills a child. It would be outrageous to jail him. Or, to choose a less clear-cut example, what about an axe killer suffering from schizophrenia? We may feel uncomfortable that he’s sent to a secure hospital rather than to prison, but we understand why it’s appropriate: the killer’s volition was affected by a mental illness over which he had no control."
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:53 AM #66
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Originally Posted by The_Hawk View Post
I'd like to see some literature on this, actually.
Poke around for it. It's pretty well known that only alcohol and benzos can cause death due to "cold turkey" withdrawals
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:54 AM #67
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Originally Posted by chodeyg View Post
Poke around for it. It's pretty well known that only alcohol and benzos can cause death due to "cold turkey" withdrawals
No. **** you. That's not how this works. I dispute your claim until you provide me with evidence.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:02 AM #68
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He doesnt need to provide support for common knowledge information.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:05 AM #69
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Originally Posted by The_Hawk View Post
No. **** you. That's not how this works. I dispute your claim until you provide me with evidence.
That's fine. Whether I google it or you do has no bearing on the facts, nor would a quick internet search provide legitimate "literature" on the subject

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He doesnt need to provide support for common knowledge information.
Thank you, I thought everyone took those drug classes
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:32 AM #70
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Originally Posted by chodeyg

Thank you, I thought everyone took those drug classes
What those D.A.R.E. classes in grammar school? **** if they worked no one would do drugs. I didn't even pay attention.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:32 AM #71
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Originally Posted by automagsrule View Post
He doesnt need to provide support for common knowledge information.
This logic is stupid and makes no sense. What do you define as "common knowledge?" Things that you know? Things that are readily available to the public? If it's the former, then nobody will learn anything because everybody should already know everything that you do. If it's the latter, then the only things that would need to be backed up with facts are things that are classified.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:41 AM #72
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No, your logic is stupid.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:50 AM #73
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"Hi I'm dual impact and I've been addicted to marijuana for 5 years. I want to quit but every time I sit around after work and watch Tim and Eric I start thinking, this isn't funny how is this even a show, then in realize you have to be stoned to watch it. And it makes me last longer during sex somehow."

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Old 10-05-2012, 11:51 AM #74
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I'm about to go to the doctors office if you really want I will try to find some journal articles later.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:55 AM #75
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Originally Posted by automagsrule View Post
No, your logic is stupid.
Oh, I see. Your argument was well thought-out and presented in a way that makes me concede to you.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:59 AM #76
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The difference is, addiction to marijuana involves mild withdrawal symptoms including inability to sleep or eat, and irritability. Whereas alcohol withdrawals can cause death...

Also it would be a far stretch to call alcohols effect on motor skills/the CNS in general similar to marijuanas. No I am not high but as soon as I'm sleepy I will be enjoying a dose of Nyquil.

Are we talking about the difference? If i read correctly you said weed has non of these side affects? oh wait, yea here it is
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Meanwhile everyones favorite illicit drug marijuana does none of these things yet it remains illegal.
but yet it clearly has them. stoners should not be trying to argue a case to legalize pot, because like most stoners, they are ****ing retarded.
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:12 PM #77
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:13 PM #78
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:01 PM #79
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Originally Posted by The_Hawk View Post
Oh, I see. Your argument was well thought-out and presented in a way that makes me concede to you.
I knew you'd come around.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:40 PM #80
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I have never seen any literature on people dying from alcohol withdrawal. I would be pretty willing to bet that if you polled the mass public, they would not know you could die from it. Thus I do not consider it common knowledge.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:10 PM #81
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Originally Posted by black_angus View Post
I have never seen any literature on people dying from alcohol withdrawal. I would be pretty willing to bet that if you polled the mass public, they would not know you could die from it. Thus I do not consider it common knowledge.
all ive heard is, pink elephants.

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Old 10-06-2012, 06:50 AM #82
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Are we talking about the difference? If i read correctly you said weed has non of these side affects? oh wait, yea here it is but yet it clearly has them. stoners should not be trying to argue a case to legalize pot, because like most stoners, they are ****ing retarded.
You're scraping here. You can drink yourself to death in one night, college students do it every year. Alcohol is related to a massive number of car accidents and domestic violence disputes, as well as robberies and other violent crimes. It has a much greater effect on motor skills and judgement no matter what way you cut it. It is related to a number of cancers, while marijuana has been shown to cut tumor growth, and marijuana use has a negative correlation with cancer according to the largest studies performed. Previous studies were conducted on monkeys and involved massive, continuous exposure to smoke.

If you can provide me with any evidence that marijuana is more dangerous than alcohol, or even tobacco I'd love to see it. Or you can just continue with your "stoners are dumb" rhetoric and be done with it. Dgaf.

Every substance has side effects btw. I guess coffee should be illegal?
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:24 AM #83
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Originally Posted by The_Hawk View Post
The fact that they tried heroin/meth makes them weak.
not everyone who tries these drugs went through an epic battle of willpower. a lot of people who try heroin are already living rather miserable existences and doing heroin seemed like a good idea. not every addict's story involves having everything, then losing it all to the drug, lots of people have nothing to begin with.

it is true that alcoholics are weak willed when it comes to alcohol, but if you look at the the rest of their lives you will find exceptional will power in most other aspects. that's why some people graduate extremely challenging colleges, work demanding jobs, and never have a problem until they have a ddrinnk. business executives and ceos are notorious for being extremeky hard workers but then once you add alcohol into the mix their willpower to stop drinking dissolves.


it is a hard concept for someone who hasn't been there to understand. either you're an alcoholic or you're not, it is true that if you consume alcohol day in and day out you will become physically dependent regardless of whether you are an alcoholic, but the diffrence is after successfully detoxing a normal person will be able to have one drink and not develop an overwhelming (scientifically proven) psychological craving, which manifests as a physical craving if they continue to drink. this is why some people have a much easier time quitting then others with little outside help, same with the example of cigarettes. the cigarette smking parents were probably more physically dependent on nicotine then flat out addicted to it. bt that would be hard to determine unless they bought a pack and smoked for a day to see if they instantly went back to smoking.

when people are prescribed opiates by a Dr. for pain management a dependence is likely to develop, take away the opiates and they will go into withdrawal. a true addict/alcoholic's life becomes unmanageable at a rapid rate after taking a drug or drink. There are people that drink every day but live successful and fulfilling lives, then there's the alcoholic who is fully capable of leading a successful life, the difference being when they drink horrible things tend to happen.

read the big book if you want to have a better understanding of alcoholism, criticize A.A. all you want but they are the first and only movement thus far to develop a trearment protocol that provides lasting recovery. they don't provide a cure though, because a true alcoholic will never be able to successfully drink again.
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:49 PM #84
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