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Old 10-01-2012, 01:06 AM #1
Ch4s3
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Exclamation Alcohol Isn't a disease

I want a legit discussion lets hear it.

My Point-

To whom say alcoholism is a "disease"

Alcoholism and other compulsive problems are fundamentally self destructive behavior, not an incurable illness.

AA is confusing self destructive behavior with an incurable illness, by Scientific definition behavior isn't a disease.

"There is no medical test for addiction: no brain scan or blood screening that enables a doctor to detect its presence.
And the disease model doesnít just fail to meet scientific criteria: it doesnít pass the common sense test, either.

Suppose an alcoholic kills a child while driving drunk. He can wave a certificate signed by every addiction specialist in the country testifying that his actions were involuntary because he has the disease of addiction. Quite rightly, it wonít make a blind bit of difference to the verdict.

But imagine that someone suffering from coronary disease has a heart attack at the wheel and kills a child. It would be outrageous to jail him. Or, to choose a less clear-cut example, what about an axe killer suffering from schizophrenia? We may feel uncomfortable that heís sent to a secure hospital rather than to prison, but we understand why itís appropriate: the killerís volition was affected by a mental illness over which he had no control."
-Damian Thompson
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:08 AM #2
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:09 AM #3
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once one is an addict one is always an addict
in that way it is incurable

just the human condition really
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:13 AM #4
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There is no brain scan or blood test to test for schizophrenea, which you use as an example, either. If that is what you are basing your definition of disease on then that is a bad example.
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:23 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch4s3 View Post
I want a legit discussion lets hear it.

My Point-

To whom say alcoholism is a "disease"

Alcoholism and other compulsive problems are fundamentally self destructive behavior, not an incurable illness.

AA is confusing self destructive behavior with an incurable illness, by Scientific definition behavior isn't a disease.

"There is no medical test for addiction: no brain scan or blood screening that enables a doctor to detect its presence.
And the disease model doesnít just fail to meet scientific criteria: it doesnít pass the common sense test, either.

Suppose an alcoholic kills a child while driving drunk. He can wave a certificate signed by every addiction specialist in the country testifying that his actions were involuntary because he has the disease of addiction. Quite rightly, it wonít make a blind bit of difference to the verdict.

But imagine that someone suffering from coronary disease has a heart attack at the wheel and kills a child. It would be outrageous to jail him. Or, to choose a less clear-cut example, what about an axe killer suffering from schizophrenia? We may feel uncomfortable that heís sent to a secure hospital rather than to prison, but we understand why itís appropriate: the killerís volition was affected by a mental illness over which he had no control."
-Damian Thompson
holy **** is this guy for real
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:34 AM #6
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Da only alcohol I need is a bottle of fowty and da juice of haterz. Swag
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:38 AM #7
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You choose to drink. Im sure you are born with mental illness or develop it from a source that you dont willingly accept.
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:38 AM #8
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http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/p...uroscience.pdf

/thread.
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:56 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost93
There is no brain scan or blood test to test for schizophrenea, which you use as an example, either. If that is what you are basing your definition of disease on then that is a bad example.
This, mental illness's are inherently impossible to test for. The very word is ill-ness, the word is the act of being ill. Ill meaning not normal,http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=ill. Addiction is such a illness caused by not yourself but yourself when combined with a mind altering substance or habit. As such;
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrockanEGO
You choose to drink. Im sure you are born with mental illness or develop it from a source that you dont willingly accept.
This is a critical difference when talking about what a diese, mental illness, being sick, etc. it is not a degenerative diese.

And now some additional critiques of this,
Addiction, dementia, Alzheimer's all are not excuses for accidents and will be fully punished. A heart attack or such would not be fully punished because it is considered an "act of god".
And as for schizophrenia, if someone was to have a break and go axe murder on people the secure hospital is the better location. Secure mental hospitals ARE prisons. The restrictions placed on mental institutions are less then even super max's. The attention to the individual patient/prisoner can be monitored more closely and drugs may be administered. In a prison setting he is unlikely to get drugs/mental help and more prone to further violent breaks because he lives in an inherently more violent place. The patient is also held at fault just like any other and serves his time like non-schizophrenic individuals

Last edited by pbmink : 10-01-2012 at 02:02 AM.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:46 AM #10
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i hate the bad rap us schizophrenics get. i go to college, have a 3.4 GPA, my last job was at a ****ing daycare where i was promoted to counselor in training (ast. manager basically) party all the time with my huge set of friends. i own a drift car that i sometimes take to the track. granted **** was heavy for a couple years when i was 19-22 (now i am 27). most of my friends think i should do an open mic night at the local comedy club (im funny as ****, in a normal kind of way). now granted im probably in the top 95 percentile of people with my disease. none of my friends know about it though. and no i dont hear voices in my head anymore or see a ****ing unicorn from time to time.

/end rant
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:03 AM #11
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That's because schizophrenia is like autism. It is such a wide spectrum with the majority of in the higher functioning areas, but the most notable in the low/non-functioning areas.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:17 AM #12
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its nothing like autism, schizophrenia is the most debilitating disease in the world, a am very lucky. 1 percent of the world has it and no medical treatment for most of that demographic. i come from the upper middle class so i had exceptional medical care from first diagnosis and a great psychiatrist. saying that and working with a lot of kids with autism, i would much rather be in my situation. id say 70 percent of people with autism wont and will never live a normal life like i do.




BTW booze is awesome but when your killing kids to get drunk you know you have a problem
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:21 AM #13
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:29 AM #14
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your not to bright are you heedonkey
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:28 AM #15
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:31 AM #16
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I'm schizophrenic, shut up, no you, **** off damn it, brb
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:37 AM #17
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“Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. God damn it Otto, you are an alcoholic. God damn it Otto, you have Lupus. One of those two doesn't sound right.”

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Old 10-01-2012, 09:40 AM #18
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You're right. Alcohol isn't a disease. It's a chemical.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:44 AM #19
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Mai mam die from alcohol diseaze dis year. She do da best she can fr us kidz butt she no survive. Liek if alcohols disease make you crai ebery tyme.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:40 AM #20
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Originally Posted by The_Hawk View Post
You're right. Alcohol isn't a disease. It's a chemical.
This. Not once have I ever seen a bottle labeled as diseased whiskey.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:54 AM #21
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how alcohol is even legal baffles me...but it's been a part of history....yeah, cause people who drank water back in the olden times died because water had parasites and other **** in it and alcohol was distilled and safe...

just baffles me how a society praises alcohol when it is just as degrading as every other drug out there today
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