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Old 09-30-2012, 11:03 PM #85
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Originally Posted by SevenGold-IV View Post
Your opinion that human life is insignificant is not enough to justify the killing of any one of us. Its not any different than saying that jews are insignificant, and that if we kill one or 6 million then that's not significant. The difference is semantics and a value judgement on what is and isnt valuable.
You are missing the point of the entire thread. Killing a newborn baby is not the same as vacuuming a few cells from a vagina. The former i dont think is right, and the latter i dont think is wrong.
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:15 PM #86
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Originally Posted by sucka T. View Post
DNA and genetic material is found on hair. Should Hair not be cut?
Hair doesnt grow into a human being. Hair doesnt have rights, or build societies.

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Your scientist looking at a human embryo statement makes no sense.
It does make sense. It is a human embryo. Belonging to, and growing into a human. My point all along is simply this: killing an embryo is killing a human being. Period.

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I dont think its wrong to destroy an embryo, why is that such a bad thing? It has no brain, no organs, no bones, no muscle. Whats the problem.
I suppose there is no problem if you believe its ok to kill human beings.
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:20 PM #87
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You are missing the point of the entire thread. Killing a newborn baby is not the same as vacuuming a few cells from a vagina. The former i dont think is right, and the latter i dont think is wrong.
Listen, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I for one am not totally against abortion. I cannot in my mind justify telling a woman who was raped to suffer the consequences of her attackers actions. Technically that means I support killing that womans child. Also, I'm very well aware that we all benefit from abortion. Less unwanted kids to single mothers means less criminals on our streets.

I just wish the pro-abortion camp would own up to the fact that they support the killing of unborn children. Much the same way that I wish most conservatives would own up to the fact that they support people starving and suffering for the consequences of their actions.
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:33 PM #88
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Ok. So you support killing an embryo only if it meets certain criteria and you call me ignorant because my criteria is different? Seems like hypocrisy to me.
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:34 PM #89
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Originally Posted by SevenGold-IV View Post
Hair doesnt grow into a human being. Hair doesnt have rights, or build societies.



It does make sense. It is a human embryo. Belonging to, and growing into a human. My point all along is simply this: killing an embryo is killing a human being. Period.



I suppose there is no problem if you believe its ok to kill human beings.
Embryos don't build societies. Even minors don't have rights...
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:44 PM #90
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Ok. So you support killing an embryo only if it meets certain criteria and you call me ignorant because my criteria is different? Seems like hypocrisy to me.
I am calling you ignorant because you think abortion is ok because an embryo is not a human being.
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:54 PM #91
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I am calling you ignorant because you think abortion is ok because an embryo is not a human being.
Nobody will disagree that an embryo will become a human. That being said, i dont assign any value to an embryo. Again. How is that ignorant of me?
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:04 AM #92
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Nobody will disagree that an embryo will become a human. That being said, i dont assign any value to an embryo. Again. How is that ignorant of me?
What do you want from me? Approval? Good for you, you don't have any value for an embryo. I consider that to be ignorant because I believe an embryo is a human life, and I believe human lives have value.
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:08 AM #93
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What do you want from me? Approval? Good for you, you don't have any value for an embryo. I consider that to be ignorant because I believe an embryo is a human life, and I believe human lives have value.
so everyone with a differing opinion is ignorant?
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:14 AM #94
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so everyone with a differing opinion is ignorant?
Yes. Troll harder, please.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:11 AM #95
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Yes. Troll harder, please.
Lol the irony.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:30 AM #96
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I dont believe all differing opinions are ignorant, but I was sick of the back and forth with that guy. Apparently a yes was all it took for him to go away.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:43 AM #97
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Same exact thing could be said for the systematic murder of homosexuals. In fact, it would make the world even better.

You're a ****ing hypocritical piece of **** if you disagree.
Again, you straw man rather than look at the bigger picture. The murder of a living human, and the destruction of a cluster of cells that has no viablity and is not reconised as life by science(see note below) are two different things.


*note* Science has set the threshhold for human life, at the presence of Alpha brain patterns. This event happens someplace around the 24-26th week of the growth. So, I will say now as I have in past talks about this subject that is where my line is, 24 weeks, if you can't figure out you don't want a baby in that amount of time, there are bigger issues at hand.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:44 AM #98
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What do you want from me? Approval? Good for you, you don't have any value for an embryo. I consider that to be ignorant because I believe an embryo is a human life, and I believe human lives have value.
lucky for the rest of us, science says different and we don't have to live in your narrow god view world.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:18 AM #99
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Obama voted FOUR times that when a baby was BORN ALIVE after a failed abortion, a SECOND "doctor" should come in and FINISH THE JOB... By killing the ALIVE, BORN baby.

And our media ignores this extreme viewpoint.

One that goes against the "do no harm" Hippocratic oath that EVERY doctor commits to before becoming a doctor...

Anyone who votes for Obama is someone who doesn't mind killing innocent children...

Morality matters, and if our PRESIDENT doesn't value life. Should you vote for him? As he might decide YOU aren't worthy of your life next... He most certainly will put people on the Supreme court and other courts that hold this radical view of "choice" over the right to life.

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Old 10-01-2012, 08:29 AM #100
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Anyone who votes for Obama is someone who doesn't mind killing innocent children...
lol

Will you go away after Romney loses?
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:35 AM #101
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*note* Science has set the threshhold for human life, at the presence of Alpha brain patterns. This event happens someplace around the 24-26th week of the growth.
Science doesn't say that human life begins once a certain growth threshold is crossed because such an assertion implies that all growth from conception to that threshold is not human life. A human embryo is an organism of sorts, so characterizing the discussion in the terms of "life" and "non-life" is not scientific at all.

If you're hanging your hat on the idea of HUMAN life, then wouldn't the appropriate standard be that point when a human embryo is distinguishable from other organisms?
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:45 AM #102
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Science doesn't say that human life begins once a certain growth threshold is crossed because such an assertion implies that all growth from conception to that threshold is not human life. A human embryo is an organism of sorts, so characterizing the discussion in the terms of "life" and "non-life" is not scientific at all.

If you're hanging your hat on the idea of HUMAN life, then wouldn't the appropriate standard be that point when a human embryo is distinguishable from other organisms?
Nope, because without alpha brain patterns, that "embryo" is just a vegie. It is incapable of thought, of coginitive abilities, of even basic emotion...there is no 'will' there.

Its much the same as that, oh what was her name terry somthing, the one in florida who was braindead but people kept saying 'oh she is alive look she smiled'
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:23 AM #103
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Nope, because without alpha brain patterns, that "embryo" is just a vegie. It is incapable of thought, of coginitive abilities, of even basic emotion...there is no 'will' there.

Its much the same as that, oh what was her name terry somthing, the one in florida who was braindead but people kept saying 'oh she is alive look she smiled'
Have you ever held a newborn fresh out of the womb? If you ever do, you will see that they are on par with Terry. Sometimes they don't even react to pain for a few days. They're essentially a bundle of nerves and instinct for the first month of life. Yet I think everyone will agree they are human at that point.

Personally, I think there should be a different measuring stick to define tumor vs. baby than brainwaves. I'm not sure what though.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:23 AM #104
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:35 AM #105
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Have you ever held a newborn fresh out of the womb? If you ever do, you will see that they are on par with Terry. Sometimes they don't even react to pain for a few days. They're essentially a bundle of nerves and instinct for the first month of life. Yet I think everyone will agree they are human at that point.

Personally, I think there should be a different measuring stick to define tumor vs. baby than brainwaves. I'm not sure what though.
Why? its a perfect test, we know a newborn has alpha brain patterns, heck as I pointed out 24-26 weeks they form. So if we set the threshold of life at that benchmark, then there is no question. It removes any of the wishy-washy problems, and it sets in stone a line in the sand, this is life, this is not life.
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