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Old 09-30-2012, 12:40 AM #43
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Originally Posted by scienceguy View Post
If you want to cut the number of abortions, you need to make it profitable for the mother to give up her unwanted baby. In the USA the mother is not allowed to make any profit from an adoption, but an adoption agency makes 10s of thousands of dollars per placement. She can ask for living expenses while pregnant, but can then change her mind after the baby is born thereby screwing the adoptive parents out their money and breaking their hearts to boot.

Adoption of infants is so unreliable here that people will pay an agency 20k for an HIV+ foreign child. A healthy Russian kid runs around 40k. There is a huge market here for adoptions. A 40k payday would certainly convince many women to complete their pregnancy. Why should the agency make all the money anyway?

Never knew this. Interesting. Googling now
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Old 09-30-2012, 01:39 AM #44
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What's the difference between not having sex and not having a baby? The end result is exactly the same.
Once Genesis begins, this argument is null.

It ultimately comes down to whether or not you have a moral whatever I think aversion is the word to terminating life for whatever reason.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:22 AM #45
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So we should make laws based on moral dilemmas?

Sounds like a bunch of religion mumbo jumbo to me.
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:33 AM #46
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Never knew this. Interesting. Googling now
The waiting list is also very long. China is around 3years now (i think) for a healthy girl. Ethiopia is essentially closed except for healthy infants due to corruption and baby theft. The country slowed it down by limiting the number of court cases per day. If you want a 7yr old HIV+ boy it's about a year and 10-15k not including travel.

Guatemala had an issue with rape dens holding women and selling babies on the black market ultimately landing in America. It was closed to international adoption years ago, but I guess they've cleaned up the system now. I haven't looked into it in a while.

If you look into infant adoption you'll see it's a very dirty business.

I also think its silly that an agency makes so much money while the mother makes nothing.
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:38 AM #47
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so how is having an abortion not taking responsibility? not being responsible would be having a kid when you 1. cant afford it 2. dont want to raise a child in a bad environment 3. raise a kid when you dont have the desire to therefore giving less effort then a parent should. i see an abortion being responsible decision, and having a baby because "i need to accept my mistakes" as being extremely ignorant and irresponsible
If she can't afford the potential consiquences of letting people stick dicks inside her, then she shouldn't let people stick dicks inside her.
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Old 09-30-2012, 10:13 AM #48
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If she can't afford the potential consiquences of letting people stick dicks inside her, then she shouldn't let people stick dicks inside her.
no. she should be allowed to have sex and make ****ing choices like an adult. If she doesnt want a baby, she doesnt have to have a ****ing baby. Thats an adult making a decision. Let me know when you have decisions to make as an adult.
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Old 09-30-2012, 10:18 AM #49
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thats the thing about sex. the only consequences we have now is STD's. Getting pregnant is no longer a consequence when we can decide whether or not we get pregnant. There is hardly difference between wearing a condomn, using birth control, and abortion. The only difference is abortion kills a few more cells. When was the last time you killed a cell? oh you have skin cells dying all the time, last time i checked that isnt a death anyone cared about

Lets not pretend having an abortion is a death anyone cares about. Obviously the woman doesnt care about it, and neither does anyone else, because nobody knows about those few cells except the woman. If the mother doesnt care about a few cells of unborn embryo then neither should you
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Last edited by sucka T. : 09-30-2012 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 09-30-2012, 10:23 AM #50
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If there was a "magic pill" that cost 1$ a pill, and it prevented every STD and pregnancy, would that be someone being irresponsible to the consequences of sex? no, its a medical practice that cures an unwanted condition of the body. thats what abortion allows
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:29 PM #51
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If she can't afford the potential consiquences of letting people stick dicks inside her, then she shouldn't let people stick dicks inside her.
Could you afford it right now if your car got in a wreck and was totalled and you had to buy a new one?

"Oh, but I have insurance."

Well, let's assume your insurance has that rare case it won't cover it, what now?

Guess you shouldn't have been driving if you can't afford to fix your car.
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Old 09-30-2012, 01:04 PM #52
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At what stage there exists what is considered to be a person...is something I remain undecided on for the arguments concerning it are good for either stance. Part of me thinks it's not a person until it's born or it's a person early in gestation. I don't believe abortion would would be as big of an issue it is today if there was a much better support system in place in our country --i.e. a better health care system and a greater economy to support single mothers.


We're always going to have people making terrible decisions and getting pregnant and we'll always have uncontrollable pregnancies from rape and etc. I feel almost everyone apart from few religious radicals believe no mother should bear a child conceived from rape or incest. So we could allow abortion for that before the child is kicking in the mother's uterus.

In Missouri we had senatorial-candidate Todd Akin make statements about how pregnancies from rape and incest can work themselves out in the mother's womb from her defense mechanisms (his upbringing apparently disallowed any scientific knowledge) and that abortions for them shouldn't be allowed. I figured nobody would support someone that stupid in my opinion after that, but he still has a lot of support.

The problem with these anti-abortion purists is that while they claim it's about protecting the child, they're rarely proponents of social programs and health care systems which would protect children. It's like once the baby is out of the vaginal canal it's just another future voter to them and nothing more.



Either build new systems and augment those currently in place to support the surplus of children who otherwise would have been aborted, or leave our ****ty health care system and piss-poor social systems in place but allow abortion as it is.
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Old 09-30-2012, 01:14 PM #53
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Again I need to point out, not a single person here has been able to say WHY abortion is wrong.
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Old 09-30-2012, 01:33 PM #54
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People have, you're just an extremist and have assigned no value to human life. Therefore you're incapable of understanding the elementary concept of this discussion.
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:00 PM #55
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no. she should be allowed to have sex and make ****ing choices like an adult. If she doesnt want a baby, she doesnt have to have a ****ing baby. Thats an adult making a decision. Let me know when you have decisions to make as an adult.
Yea, and if she decides she doesn't want to have a baby once it's been born for a week, she doesn't have to have the ****ing baby. She should be able to make the adult decision to "terminate" the unwanted baby, because she's an adult. Let adults make decisions already.
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:09 PM #56
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Yea, and if she decides she doesn't want to have a baby once it's been born for a week, she doesn't have to have the ****ing baby. She should be able to make the adult decision to "terminate" the unwanted baby, because she's an adult. Let adults make decisions already.
oh, right, because killing a 9 pound baby is the same as killing a small embyro that weighs less than a gram
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:12 PM #57
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theres a difference between finding out your pregnant by pissing on a tube, and deciding to have an abortion, then waiting 9 months, birthing a live baby, and killing it.
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:07 PM #58
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People have, you're just an extremist and have assigned no value to human life. Therefore you're incapable of understanding the elementary concept of this discussion.
Ok, lets take this deeper down the rabbithole, why do you feel the need to "assign value" to human life over other lives?
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:12 PM #59
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#1 - How many are you that are making this argument women.

#2 - I'm a person of faith and I do not personally agree with abortion, however as a medical provider I am required by my ethical responsibility to put forward ALL options and allow my patient to make an informed consent.

This was well covered in my rant about the religious stigmatizing gay, lesbian and transgendered people, but if you are truly a religious person, then you should realize that it isn't up to you to judge, decide, or anything else for another person. That's up to that God that you are always trying to talk for.

If you are a religious person, and are judging someone for that, then you just are someone who enjoys taking the moral high ground and want to be part of the flag-waving of your specific group. It also demonstrates that your faith is flawed, as if you have to fight that crusade against abortion, you are not trusting in the judgement of the God that you claim to have faith in.

If you are not a religious person the conversation is also moot, as that would imply that right and wrong are subjective interpretations of actions that depend on circumstance and the social and societal expectations of those around you.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:28 PM #60
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Who cares? as I hae pointed out 6.5 BILLION people and counting on this planet, if a few hundred thousand are never born every year, its not going to make a impact.

Pro-abortion all the way, we need FORCED abortions so folks like...well a good 1/4 of the foolish who waste their time on believing in some kind of "god" are taken out.

For that matter, what makes it so wrong to have an abortion?
Just wanted to quote this to show the opposite of pro life. Hint: its not being pro choice.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:30 PM #61
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Yea, and if she decides she doesn't want to have a baby once it's been born for a week, she doesn't have to have the ****ing baby. She should be able to make the adult decision to "terminate" the unwanted baby, because she's an adult. Let adults make decisions already.
Uh...did you just say there's nothing wrong with a mother killing a LIVE baby? One that's already been born?


Yup, you might be even more retarded than Overbear.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:57 PM #62
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Uh...did you just say there's nothing wrong with a mother killing a LIVE baby? One that's already been born?


Yup, you might be even more retarded than Overbear.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:00 PM #63
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So we should make laws based on moral dilemmas?

Sounds like a bunch of religion mumbo jumbo to me.
I used the word genesis, but you can get over yourself.

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Could you afford it right now if your car got in a wreck and was totalled and you had to buy a new one?

"Oh, but I have insurance."

Well, let's assume your insurance has that rare case it won't cover it, what now?

Guess you shouldn't have been driving if you can't afford to fix your car.
Not that I was involved in this little bit, but yes I can and have had to. The word is responsibility. Responsible people do this thing called saving.



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