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Old 09-25-2012, 08:07 AM #1
Fox4paintball
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2012 foXball comes to a close....

The 2012 foXball season has come to a close.

Wed like to congratulate all the teams that participated in the league this season. We know you have choices and wed like to thank you for choosing foXball.

Special congratulations to the 2012 Champions:
Major Leagues: El Dorado Gun Fight
Minor Leagues: New England United

If you have any suggestions on how we can make the league better please let us know. There are several forums for your suggestions:
1 Respond to this post right here on PBNation
2 Send Dave and email at dave@fox4paintball.com
3 Send Dave a PM on PBNation (fox4paintball)
4 Send Dave a PM on the Fox 4 forum (admin)
5 Send Dave a Message on Facebook

Were always looking for ways to improve the league and welcome your recommendations and requests.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:54 AM #2
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Definitely a fun season.
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:47 PM #3
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Fun season
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:03 PM #4
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As a player who did not play in the league, but looking at Foxball as a viable option for the 2013 season I did check out a few events towards the end of the season. Still not 100% sure how I feel about the league, but I love the format. My question for Dave is regarding the officiating.

Do you have any plans to work on improving the officiating to be more consistent with making calls of similiar nature? ie Obvious vs Unobvious hits and Playing On

Is there anyway to make the referees more proactive in getting in position to conduct checks and make calls without the use of the large police shields or umbrellas?

Officiating is typically always the big complaint with any league, but those are two things that I observed from the bleachers as a spectator.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:40 PM #5
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Reffing is always the hardest thing to get "right".

The hardest is being consistent from ref to ref as everyone tends to call things differently.

We will be working on a plan this off season to become more consistent in our calls from ref to ref - this is the biggest thing in my mind. We need to get Nick to back off just a little and get some of our more lenient refs to step up a little and hopefully everyone can meet in the middle and be consistent.

As for the Shields and Umbrellas…we actually eliminated the umbrellas at the last event. However, seeing how our field is a bit narrow and there isn’t a lot of room on the sidelines, the refs need some sort of extra protection. In a perfect world we’d have a bigger field and the refs would have more options to move and get out of the line of fire on the sideline but it just isn’t so. I think the shields will most likely stay.

Do we get every call right – no. Do I believe we can improve – yes. Do I believe our refs are doing a good job compared to other leagues – yes. We’ll always work on improving – whether that’s the reffing or the field layouts or the food we serve at the snack shack.

Are you volunteering to ref?
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:41 PM #6
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One other things - we'll be looking at getting more refs on the field for 2013. There were some events that I think we could have benefited from having more refs. I'm working on that as you read this.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:14 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox4paintball View Post
Reffing is always the hardest thing to get "right".

The hardest is being consistent from ref to ref as everyone tends to call things differently.

We will be working on a plan this off season to become more consistent in our calls from ref to ref - this is the biggest thing in my mind. We need to get Nick to back off just a little and get some of our more lenient refs to step up a little and hopefully everyone can meet in the middle and be consistent.

As for the Shields and Umbrellas…we actually eliminated the umbrellas at the last event. However, seeing how our field is a bit narrow and there isn’t a lot of room on the sidelines, the refs need some sort of extra protection. In a perfect world we’d have a bigger field and the refs would have more options to move and get out of the line of fire on the sideline but it just isn’t so. I think the shields will most likely stay.

Do we get every call right – no. Do I believe we can improve – yes. Do I believe our refs are doing a good job compared to other leagues – yes. We’ll always work on improving – whether that’s the reffing or the field layouts or the food we serve at the snack shack.

Are you volunteering to ref?
I agree with you 100% that reffing is one of the hardest things to get right when it comes to our silly sport but I believe consistency is actually more important. My comment about the shields/umbrellas was directed more at the referees using them when going in for paint checks. I understand that the field might be a little smaller than most and might limit a ref's ability to protect themselves; however, when approaching a bunker and checking a player is it really necessary to be holding the shield up for protection while at the same time shielding the player in question?

I'm not questioning your league's ability to get every call right, as no league can do that. All I was asking was what plans you were putting in place to try and get as many calls right as possible and remain consistent and fair to all players/teams while doing so.

And, no I'm not volunteering to Ref. Been there, done that. It's a thankless job and just opens oneself to the venom being spit by angry players/spectators questioning every call.
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Last edited by tniz : 09-25-2012 at 09:26 PM. Reason: iphone app sucks and misquoted Dave
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:30 AM #8
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Sick.

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Old 09-26-2012, 11:00 AM #9
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We try to improve from year to year.

We try to work on making our reffing more consistent from ref to ref every year.

I guess we could call players neutral so as not to get ripped up while going in to check them, but that is never a good thing to do in my opinion.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:50 AM #10
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Played 2 seasons of foxball and the shield has never been an issue for me. WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM TOM?

Though I guess I can see why you might be questioning it.

I really only comment because I have never seen any refs in any event not get right in to make calls. Every time I shoot someone they get in there and every time I got a bounce off the ridiculous jerseys i got checked.

The pits are vastly improved. The stairs in the pit are much better, it's 100x easier to get to the back pit without rock climbing.
Please let me apologize if my questions come across as having problems. I thought this thread was meant to be an open forum to discuss suggestions for the league. Since I didn't play this season, or the season before I guess my thoughts/opinions don't matter. I'm just gonna stop posting and unsubscribe to the thread.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:11 PM #11
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by tniz View Post
Please let me apologize if my questions come across as having problems. I thought this thread was meant to be an open forum to discuss suggestions for the league. Since I didn't play this season, or the season before I guess my thoughts/opinions don't matter. I'm just gonna stop posting and unsubscribe to the thread.
I don't think your questions are out of line.
They are good questions. The more people ask, the easier to find was to improve the league.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:16 PM #12
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I was joking Tom. I thought you would have guessed that from my blatant RAGE TYPING.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:38 PM #13
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Tom,

Unless the response comes from Fox 4 Paintball then you can consider it an unofficial response - maybe even a worthless response.

We are always looking for ways to improve. However, that doesn't mean only asking the questions, but also providing your thoughts on what might be the right solution. We are smart enough to know that we don't know much of anything - we'll take all the input possible on problems and solutions.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:44 PM #14
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Truth^. Ignore me. I deleted that so I don't undermine your improvement thread.

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Old 09-26-2012, 02:50 PM #15
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I only guested on a saturdays minor team, but between event 1 and event 2 there was a different reffing staff and it changed the outcomes severely. event 1 staff didn't call penaltys, they just called players out that played on with obvious hits. the only penalties I saw were from when players stepped over the line by the back line...
event 2 staff were more consistent with minors/majors etc. i'm just saying that if both minors leagues pay the same amount they should get the same amount of quality reffing.
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Old 09-26-2012, 03:52 PM #16
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bshort524,

I'm a bit confused...you're saying the reffing (refs?) were different between event 1 and event 2 Saturdays? Or did you play Saturday one event and Sunday another event?

Unfortunately we have different reffing crews for the second day of Minors (tough to have the same guys reffing all the events - its a lot of days). However, I don't see it as a problem as long as the reffing on Saturday's are consistent with all the Saturdays and the reffing on Sundays are consistent with all the Sundays (even if the reffing between Saturday and Sunday are a bit different).

Our goal would be to bring all the reffing together as close as possible, but with different people on the field reffing it will be a very big challenge.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:42 PM #17
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as a player in foxball, the penalties for playing on and for field negligence (taking mask off coming on a live field talking from the pits etc) are never ending. The 187 crew guys are the best in the industry and they reff top notch paintball and they see everything. if found some of the best reffing at an organized event.

as a reff in the minors the shields and umbrellas allow us to get close to you and protect us only, allowing us to stand in the lane in order to check players. its not to shield players.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:56 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox4paintball View Post
bshort524,

I'm a bit confused...you're saying the reffing (refs?) were different between event 1 and event 2 Saturdays? Or did you play Saturday one event and Sunday another event?

Unfortunately we have different reffing crews for the second day of Minors (tough to have the same guys reffing all the events - its a lot of days). However, I don't see it as a problem as long as the reffing on Saturday's are consistent with all the Saturdays and the reffing on Sundays are consistent with all the Sundays (even if the reffing between Saturday and Sunday are a bit different).

Our goal would be to bring all the reffing together as close as possible, but with different people on the field reffing it will be a very big challenge.
I believe it wwas Saturday Minors Event 1 and Event 2. There were two different reffing crews on each day. That's the only issue I had and I remember some of the other guesting players thought the same. besides that best league in NE.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:06 AM #19
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bshorts524,

I'm still confused. While we may have had one or two different refs on any particular day for the most part if you played on Sunday Minors you had one reffing crew (El Dorado Gun Fight) and if you played on Saturday Minors you had another ref crew (upTon 187 cRew). Majors was reffed by upTon 187 crew also.

To my knowledge we did not have different reffing crews for Saturday Minors from Event 1 to Event 2. Though it is possible (I'd have to look back at my schedule) that I was away on vacation for Event 2.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:36 AM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley the great
as a reff in the minors the shields and umbrellas allow us to get close to you and protect us only, allowing us to stand in the lane in order to check players. its not to shield players.
I'm not trying to accuse referees of going in and shielding players, intentionally or unintentionally. I just feel it is very unprofessional of the refs to feel that they need that protection in order to go in and check someone.

How would Dave and the 187 guys feel if at cup, the refs were hesitant to get in to conduct checks because there was a chance they might get shot? Or worse, what if the half-second window of opportunity to get a shot on someone and close a game disappears because there was a shield in the way.

Again, I understand the need for protection, and if they want to use them on the sidelines that's ok, but taking them into a bunker is a little over the top. You're a ref, and should expect to get shot a couple times.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:42 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley the great View Post
as a player in foxball, the penalties for playing on and for field negligence (taking mask off coming on a live field talking from the pits etc) are never ending.
Sorry, still getting used to catching up on the Nation while at work using the app... but I'm surprised I didn't catch this.

I think it was on Sunday that one of the Boats players got pulled for a penalty at half time for not wearing his mask on the field while picking up pods. I understand the penalty and I'm not questioning the call, rather, I think it's a little scary that the ref's can/will take their masks off in between points, while washing bunkers, or to just chit chat amongst themselves of spectators in the bleachers.

Any thoughts on becoming a little stricter with event staff on the field? It might not impact the gameplay on the field, but there are safety implications and it jeopardizes the goodwill of the sport. I would hate for some mom to see a ref on the field with no mask while guys are shooting at the start box waiting for the 10seconds. All we need is that mom to get on her soapbox and hit facebook/twitter/yelp.
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