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Old 09-28-2012, 07:30 AM #43
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Has anyone seen my red herring? I can't find it anywhere. I swear I left it right here...
Sup Bill, how's it going?
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:15 AM #44
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Differing to my first post, measure the cost of the other energy sources which are used to build and maintain the reactor and the infrastructure required to harness and distribute its output.
Short term versus long term solutions.
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:35 AM #45
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Short term versus long term solutions.
The over arching theme being that we don't have an energy solution that will do fossil fuels job without relying on fossil fuels.
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:37 AM #46
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The over arching theme being that we don't have an energy solution that will do fossil fuels job without relying on fossil fuels.
We have an energy solution that outperforms fossil fuels, we're just not interested in investing in the infrastructure.
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:41 AM #47
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We have an energy solution that outperforms fossil fuels, we're just not interested in investing in the infrastructure.
Which is?
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:43 AM #48
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Which is?
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:58 PM #49
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You are only looking at the output. Dig a bit deeper.

To make Nuclear power work, a tremendous amount of non nuclear resources are needed to build maintain and decommission it. Nuclear power is non renewable and cannot sustain itself. To put it simply, it requires a flow of raw material to function. To acquire this material requires, again, non nuclear resources. Nuclear power carries with it tremendous environmental consequences. This isn't to mention the environmental impact from merely harvesting the raw material.

So you build yourself a reactor with the infrastructure to bring power to a grid, what else is it good for? We do not have the means of safely placing nuclear reactors in every day vehicles and machinery. If we could, we might solve a portion of the costs associated. The technology is unstable. Due to the dangers and associated costs, it is hard to justify whether or not nuclear power is even a worthwhile investment, despite the energy output.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:10 PM #50
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To sum up quite simply: Investment in nuclear power is not popular because nuclear power is neither cheap nor abundant.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:29 PM #51
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I didn't say it's the end all, but by shifting national power generation to nuclear we free up a whole lot of heating and energy generating fuel capacity. Less exposure to a volatile market, more technical jobs, more secure power generation and a chance to update antiquated transmission infrastructure, there are a lot of positives.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:21 PM #52
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I didn't say it's the end all, but by shifting national power generation to nuclear we free up a whole lot of heating and energy generating fuel capacity. Less exposure to a volatile market, more technical jobs, more secure power generation and a chance to update antiquated transmission infrastructure, there are a lot of positives.
I don't mean to imply you implied that nuclear is the end all be all. I am simply doing my best to point out that nuclear energy is not a practical solution to our energy problems.

The output of nuclear technology does not justify the cost and risk. Especially as a national energy source. Again, we are limited on which applications can harness the power. A lot of what you said is very wishy washy and truthfully amounts to little of real substance to respond to. Unless you can address the issues surrounding nuclear power that I have raised, there is little point in taking this any further. One thing is certain. The freed resources will be allocated and eaten up by what is required for nuclear power.

Last edited by Iamamartianchurch : 09-28-2012 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:41 PM #53
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Let's ignore the brittle technology which pending natural disaster can cause catastrophic damage, the incredibly lethal waste produced by reactors and the already mentioned incredibly expensive costs for one simple fact.

We will deplete our supplies of fissionable resources like uranium. So the question is, what point is there in investing time and resources into a vastly expensive technology which will ultimately amount to nothing more than kicking the can down the road. By that I mean of its non renewability in a practical sense of time.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:23 PM #54
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Thorium.
He hit the nail on the head. It's low enrichment, much more abundant, featured around the world as viable, recyclable and the next step in reactors. Do some research on it, you'll find it interesting. I'm not talking about vehicles, but with the expansion of EV's, the current power grid and generation system can't support it. It can't keep up with the summer demand if you remember the rolling blackouts in California or the blackout in the Northeast, let alone hundreds of thousands of rapid charging stations.

Brittle technology? You do realize all of the plants in use here were built before most of the posters here were born, right? It's been 30 years since a reactor was approved in the USA and it's supposed to compete with modern technology? Look at the Fukushima disaster, the 9.0 earthquake didn't phase the 41 year old plant. It took poor planning and a once in a century 49ft tsunami to cause the disaster.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:48 PM #55
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What about fission? We know it's possible. We just have to figure out how to get it going. There have been a lot of very dramatic advancements in getting a higher energy output yield than is put in it (most recently, a very small experiment that was first virtualized with a computer model has put out more energy than it took to start it. A very significant advancement, but we have to try and scale it larger to make it something viable for us), but discovering the key to such a thing could help the world tremendously.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:50 PM #56
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You mean fusion? Google ITER if you're into that kind of thing.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:08 AM #57
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The latest advancement in fusion produced a second or millisecond of energy that came nowhere close to the amount of energy that was required to do it. If I remember correctly there has been billions dumped in grant money at physicist to make fusion a reality and there hasn't been a significant return. Not saying there won't be, but a computer model is a far cry from a viable solution and the current success of a real world test was rather pathetic.


Anyway I'll respond to the rest on Monday.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:29 AM #58
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FUSION. Sorry. too many drinks
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:59 AM #59
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The latest advancement in fusion produced a second or millisecond of energy that came nowhere close to the amount of energy that was required to do it. If I remember correctly there has been billions dumped in grant money at physicist to make fusion a reality and there hasn't been a significant return. Not saying there won't be, but a computer model is a far cry from a viable solution and the current success of a real world test was rather pathetic.


Anyway I'll respond to the rest on Monday.
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You mean fusion? Google ITER if you're into that kind of thing.
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Old 09-29-2012, 05:26 PM #60
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You mean fusion? Google ITER if you're into that kind of thing.
I was thinking "isn't it fusion?" and then rethought maybe I was wrong and he was talking about something else. Then I went and listened to the "Astronomy Cast" podcast with Frasier and Pamela on fisuon and fission, then one on Mars, and forgot about the thread entirely.

and yes, Thorium research is surprisingly non existent. I read up on this in a book "Terrestrial Energy" by William Tucker. I am not sure why research into Thorium reactors was off discussion for 40 or so years. It's more abundant than uranium and plutonium, and harder to weaponize. What is to dislike? I believe the United States has a lot of it too, and one of the Scandinavian countries (or all of them) has a lot too. I believe that we are working with China (of all people) on making a functional Thorium reactor.

To make an "on topic" post here - Thorium is a lot cleaner and less radioactive than anything currently used in a nuclear reactor. It also doesn't need anything additional to function inside a reactor - just Thorium standalone is suffice.

It's a great topic, and I'm curious to see what we have done in the past year to further Thorium research. I'll have to read up on it.
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Old 09-30-2012, 01:35 AM #61
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Oil was super abundant at one point too.


See a pattern here?

Old women can't dance to dad rock cover bands. The geometry of it is all wrong. What appears to be acute, behaves as if it were obtuse. God rest them, if there be any rest in the universe.
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Old 09-30-2012, 02:06 AM #62
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What you're seeking doesn't exist. They're all kicking the can down the road until jebus can save us.
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Old 09-30-2012, 02:25 AM #63
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What you're seeking doesn't exist. They're all kicking the can down the road until jebus can save us.
Well we are now on the same page.

People tell me I look like Jesus. Jesus or Kurt Cocain. Or Zack wylde. I've gotten Thor once at six flags waiting in line for Tatsu. Which is a ****ing fun ride.

The point being. Your savior is already here.
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