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Old 09-18-2012, 05:11 PM #1
Pizzall
 
 
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Question Infamous Bolt Consistency Issue

Hey All,

I need some assistance with my Boss Infamous Bolt. I've been out twice now with the new bolt and have had the WORST consistency with it. It's fluctuating from 280's down to 250's and back up in the 290's again. I put the stock bolt back in the gun last weekend and immediately it was back to +/- 4 or 5.
I have a Dye UL .684 barrel, boss bolt, reg set to 140, dwell at 3ms, back cap 1 1/2 turns out, and the gun is plenty broken in. I know it wasn't from the poppit oring being bad or needing lube because, like i said once i put the stock bolt back in consistency went back to normal, and i know it wasn't a product of poor paint quality either.
I've searched on the forums but have only seen one thing that was really relative to my problem. Someone said raising the dwell to around 4.5-5 helped them with their boss bolt's consistency, but i'm not sure if that'll really help, that was the one thing i haven't tried yet.
Any help would be very much appreciated, i really like the bolt's noise signature and reduction of kick, but i'd MUCH rather have the consistency to where it's supposed to be at the way the stock bolt is.
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:13 PM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzall View Post
Dye UL .684 barrel
If your barrel is matching the paint size exactly, your shots will be inconsistent. I had the same problem when shooting my Lurker .684. Most paint these days is around .682, I'd try underboring a bit lower than .680 and raising your dwell by a millisecond or so.
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:49 PM #3
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I don't really have anything to add to a solution, but just wanted to add mine's been doing the same thing. This past weekend using a .685 CP back and formula 13 paint my chrono would read for example: 285, 290, 274, 253!, 280... Every 5-10 shots I would get a rather low reading.

I just bought a personal xradar chrono so maybe this weekend if I have time I'll look into a possible solution.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:31 PM #4
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hmm ive seen some inconsistency issues before and raising the dwell may help a tad, i think at one time i went from 3ms up to 4.5ms and it helped, plus like sniper said, underboring will help
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:34 PM #5
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A 680 UL is a great barrel, I think my 684 shoots kinda wonky
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:42 PM #6
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Yep, under bore and maybe try 3.5-4 ms dwell. Sometimes a fresh set of bolt guide o-rings can help.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:21 PM #7
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Bore match is particularly important in the Axe/Mini because the backpressure at the ball propogates backwards to the face of the poppet and exhibits unstable dynamics - a higher backpressure from a seal means the poppet opens wider longer due to more opening force, whereas when you lose that seal, not only do you lose FPS from blowby around the ball in the barrel, but the poppet is physically closing faster as well.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:07 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurker27 View Post
Bore match is particularly important in the Axe/Mini because the backpressure at the ball propogates backwards to the face of the poppet and exhibits unstable dynamics - a higher backpressure from a seal means the poppet opens wider longer due to more opening force, whereas when you lose that seal, not only do you lose FPS from blowby around the ball in the barrel, but the poppet is physically closing faster as well.
Alright I'm following you on this part, however like Pizzall said why does the consistency seem to be tightened back up when the stock internals are put back in (I've noticed this as well)? Is this simply just a matter of adjusting the dwell as needed until consistency tightens back up?
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:02 AM #9
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Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far! But it's def. not from not underboring. I use Lava paintballs here in so cal and a .684 with the heat & humidity the way it's been makes for a great underbore. It's just like cville33 said tho, my axe tightens its consistency back up when i put the stock bolt back in.
Either way I'm gonna try what Boss said and replace the bolt guide o-rings, and also try raising my dwell .5ms at a time and see if that works.
Cville33 let us know how it goes with yours when you have time to try a solution
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:19 AM #10
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Mine has been doing that since the day I got it, for me the bolt is worse than the stock bolt, the only reason I really use it is for it being good on fragile paint. I've almost tried everything, under boring with a freak kit, raising my dwell, and adjusting pressure and it still does it. I like the bolt alot don't get me wrong but it's very inconsistent for me.
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:32 AM #11
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I remember having inconsistency issues like this with my infamous bolt as well. I think the major difference for me was getting a good underbore going. The paint we had this summer was super tiny, so it turned out I ended up needing a .675 insert.

My dwell is also at 4ms and my pressure is around 150-160. A little higher, but I still get the reduction in kick and sound signature you want.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but a good underbore means the paint should be very difficult to blow through the barrel, otherwise you're just matching.
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:56 AM #12
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Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but a good underbore means the paint should be very difficult to blow through the barrel, otherwise you're just matching.
You are correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzall View Post
Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far! But it's def. not from not underboring. I use Lava paintballs here in so cal and a .684 with the heat & humidity the way it's been makes for a great underbore.
You'd be surprised at how far you can underbore, even with humidity. Toronto gets CRAZY humid in the summertime (i'm talking between 100-104 degrees F), and my .678 shoots amazingly consistent, with no breaks to speak of. Keep in mind that even though most (if not all) paint says ".689" on the box, it's actually more like .680 - .684. Moving to a lower underbore solved my consistency issue in no time, it was literally like night & day from using a .684.

But it's your gun, so do you. I'm just trying to give advice based on my personal experience.

Last edited by SNAKESNIPER : 09-19-2012 at 07:01 AM.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:54 PM #13
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Hey Snakesniper,
For sure! thank you very much for the advice i really appreciate everyone's input so far, everyone's been extremely helpful. I do understand about the underboring and all that. But it's for sure not from that because, like I had said, when I put the stock internals back in, the consistency tightens right back up to being in like the +/- 4-5 FPS range.

I have noticed that the Boss bolt is quite lose on the bolt guide compared to the stock bolt too though. I don't know if everyone else's Boss bolt is as lose as mine is, but that was definetely something that i noticed and was concerned about?
Either way I'm going to try it again this weekend with a higher dwell and replace the bolt guide orings. If it doesn't work out i may sell it. I love the noise signature and kick reduction of the boss bolt but having an inconsistent marker is maddening
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:07 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzall View Post
Hey Snakesniper,
For sure! thank you very much for the advice i really appreciate everyone's input so far, everyone's been extremely helpful. I do understand about the underboring and all that. But it's for sure not from that because, like I had said, when I put the stock internals back in, the consistency tightens right back up to being in like the +/- 4-5 FPS range.

I have noticed that the Boss bolt is quite lose on the bolt guide compared to the stock bolt too though. I don't know if everyone else's Boss bolt is as lose as mine is, but that was definetely something that i noticed and was concerned about?
Either way I'm going to try it again this weekend with a higher dwell and replace the bolt guide orings. If it doesn't work out i may sell it. I love the noise signature and kick reduction of the boss bolt but having an inconsistent marker is maddening
Worn bolt guide o-rings can add to your issue. That is why we run the Boss Pro guide o-rings. They seal better and wear longer.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:07 PM #15
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I use a lucky 15 barrel, .683 bore and I shoot mostly Valken Crusade paint, I had to re-tune recently since I went from the v2 to the Infamous bolt, so I had already some previous experience from it.

My advice, before you tune your gun, know what you want to get from it, either really smooth shooting or sacrifice that for a little more efficiency.

I don't really need such an smooth shot, I play speedball and sometimes woodsball games that last for an hour or two, and here we fill to about 3.2k-3.5k.

Polish your poppet, look for a guide how to do it here on the nation. Lube your bolt orings and the bolt guide orings correctly, just a layer of lube and re lube every 1-2 cases, don't use too much lube.

When I started to re tune for the infamous I started like this:
(No bs, I have a chrono and I write the readings on a notebook for future reference)
-----------------------------
4.0MS Dwell, 1 Turn out Back Cap, 165psi

Chrono: 286-279-286

-----------------------------
4.0MS Dwell, 1 1/4 Turn out Back Cap****, 165psi

Chrono: 286 -282 -277- 280- 291

-----------------------------
4.0MS Dwell, 1 1/2 Turn out Back Cap, 165psi

Chrono: 281-285-283-285-280 (Here it starts to get really consistent)

Did 1/8 out more see if I could get any more speed but...

Chrono: 285-294-296-304-285

So, 1/4th in to be right about 1 3/8th turns out and I got back to

Chrono: 290-296-[COLOR="rgb(0, 100, 0)"]292[/color]-289

Finally, Lowered the dwell to 3.5ms and I got here:



So, in conclusion, when you start to get a tight group, of about +/- 4-5fps you can turn your dwell down a little, see how it affects it in terms of consistency, not speed, mine obviously lost a little speed, but I was able to get a +/- 2fps consistency.

Feel free to contact me if you need help tunning your axe, I'll be glad to help.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:42 AM #16
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Nice job, Taxarod.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:48 AM #17
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Nice job, Taxarod.
I concur with that.
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:22 PM #18
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Well I was able to mess around a little bit today. However I haven't seemed to isolate the problem yet.

I started off by tearing down my axe, thoroughly cleaning all internals and checking the orings (all looked perfect) and re lubing everything w/ slick honey. I raised my dwell from 4ms to 4.5ms just for a change since everything else would be kept the same since last time. I used a .685 cp barrel with empire custom blend paint, but still am plagued by major inconsistency.
I tried tuning using the "smoothest tuning method" thread, but never could get a consistent velocity.

I started off @ 160psi and just kept messing with the back cap in about 1/8-1/16 turn increments (1/2 turn - 1.5 turns out total) but couldn't find anything close to a sweet spot. I was never able to get within +/- 10. I did have a few times where I would get for ex. 280, 290, 292, 286 for a few shots, but the 271! would pop up or it would peak to >=300. This was very common for a few different pressure settings. I tested between 130psi-160psi in about 5-10psi increments and this didn't do anything either.

Is is really worth buying a smaller bore (.679 CP) or is there something else I should try first?
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:41 PM #19
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Alright, so I have been led up to by myself that the reason for my Axe with XSV bolt shooting 290s then down to 250s and lower was because of my regulator needing broken in. But after seeing this thread, I think it may be because of how I bore my paint. Being that sometimes it will shoot consistently where I want it, and others 290s to 240-250s... Using the same back... On different weekends...
So what I usually do, is take a barrel back and if one or two need a little blow to push them out but the rest fall through then that's fine, but I don't know what that would be called, but it definitely doesn't sound like underboring...
Can someone help me with how to underbore my paint? I think that is my problem..
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:05 PM #20
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What you just described is more like bore matching.

Under boring means that every ball you put in should be required for you to put air behind it, some people say a decent puff, some people say you should really have to blow into it, in order for it to get out.

The 290's you get are balls that are getting that seal, whereas the 240-50 are the ones that are just rolling out.

Basically, if you have a freak or similar kit, just use either the .679 or .682 and you should be golden, regardless of paint. I can say that I have used pretty much only my .679 insert since I got my freak, haven't broken a ball yet in my axe running at around 155 shooting in the 290's
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:12 PM #21
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What you just described is more like bore matching.

Under boring means that every ball you put in should be required for you to put air behind it, some people say a decent puff, some people say you should really have to blow into it, in order for it to get out.

The 290's you get are balls that are getting that seal, whereas the 240-50 are the ones that are just rolling out.

Basically, if you have a freak or similar kit, just use either the .679 or .682 and you should be golden, regardless of paint. I can say that I have used pretty much only my .679 insert since I got my freak, haven't broken a ball yet in my axe running at around 155 shooting in the 290's
I feel really dumb, haha.
But the lowest bore I have is my CP .682, but maybe when I get some money I can order a .679.
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