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Old 09-18-2012, 02:11 PM #211
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The guy just said three times that every gun will be different, and to start at stock and tune the marker to the settings that your particular gun shoots best at. He's saying that PE is of the mind that with all the variables in peoples setups, and even climate (Im saying this) that no one marker will have the same new baseline. Use the stock settings as the baseline, adjust accordingly because while every marker is the same each individual player will have different results and different preferences.

You cant make it any plainer.

I am a donut, you will listen to me.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:51 PM #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godraep View Post
The guy just said three times that every gun will be different, and to start at stock and tune the marker to the settings that your particular gun shoots best at. He's saying that PE is of the mind that with all the variables in peoples setups, and even climate (Im saying this) that no one marker will have the same new baseline. Use the stock settings as the baseline, adjust accordingly because while every marker is the same each individual player will have different results and different preferences.

You cant make it any plainer.

I am a donut, you will listen to me.
I agree, but I can see the need for some recommendations on how to tune it. For example, if the bolt is now heavier, should we try to lower the LPR while keeping the dwell, or drop the dwell, etc. And since the valve is different, should we be able to run a lower dwell. Part of the issue is not just that each gun will behave differently, but that there is not enough experience with this new modification to give any specific recommendations.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:59 PM #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godraep View Post
The guy just said three times that every gun will be different, and to start at stock and tune the marker to the settings that your particular gun shoots best at. He's saying that PE is of the mind that with all the variables in peoples setups, and even climate (Im saying this) that no one marker will have the same new baseline. Use the stock settings as the baseline, adjust accordingly because while every marker is the same each individual player will have different results and different preferences.

You cant make it any plainer.

I am a donut, you will listen to me.
Apart from the fact that eclipse obviously has been testing these for a while, they must have tried different settings, they must have found the best settings for each gun that it was tested in by them, average these setting and release them. Is it that ****ing hard?
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:00 PM #214
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:06 PM #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazdoc View Post
I agree, but I can see the need for some recommendations on how to tune it. For example, if the bolt is now heavier, should we try to lower the LPR while keeping the dwell, or drop the dwell, etc. And since the valve is different, should we be able to run a lower dwell. Part of the issue is not just that each gun will behave differently, but that there is not enough experience with this new modification to give any specific recommendations.
Winner winner, chicken dinner. If I'm dropping the coin on this I'd love at least a shot in the dark tuning guide.

When I order mine i want to get the smoothest shot possible so I would at least like to know what PE found for the most part i can leave alone and what I need to focus more on which would speed up tuning the marker alot.
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:37 PM #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tniz View Post
Had to go there buddy... had to go there buddy...

The Geo3 is a great gun and I love the way it feels in my hands. The ergonomics just allow me to get a better handle on it and I feel so much more comfortable with it in my hands. Only issue, is that the only time I shoot Semi, is when I'm on the 7man field and I tend to shoot significantly more paint than I do when I'm on the Xball field, so that's when I turn to my Ego, to capitalize on the efficiency.

With the D.A.R.T. kit, I have noticed a softer/quieter shot signature. Though nowhere near the level of a Spool Valve, it is very noticeable. The way the marker shoots was also changed as well. I've had it for a while now, and I'm used to it, but when someone grabs my gun, the first thing they say is that it doesn't have that poppy feel when you shoot; rather, it feels the bolt has a more fluid less violent motion. Lastly, the biggest improvement, in my opinion is the increase in efficiency people see. I'm not getting into numbers after the Geo3 fiasco, but the gains are there.

My friend, in every experiment, as you probably know I'm getting famous for, a control must be stated to compare and extract solutions for!
I can already take your word the the ego 11, but the highest "smooth" marker PE has out of the box as of now is the Geo 3.

None the less, KEEP ME AWAY FROM YOUR EGO!! I feel if I touch it, I'm probably going to buy another one with the dart kit. D:
(At this point, you're starting to turn into a wife. Burning money in the accounts.)

In turns of efficiency ,if it is noticeable, I agree with that is all that is needed to be said. Jack even said they won't get into numbers simply because every marker varies so much. (IE Putting this in a BRAND new Ego11, and hearing people say they don't feel any difference. >.>)

But after reading Tniz's and a few other people's reviews, I'll probably pick this baby up if I get another ego11, or even that new "EgoS."
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:07 PM #217
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Frost, you know where to find me. Anytime you want to take my gun for a test drive, let me know.

As far as the money thing goes, be thankful you only see me once in a while. Imagine if we played more often. I'm sure Plaistow has your cc info on file, and would be more than happy to hit the payment button one more time.
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:29 PM #218
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My kit arrived the other day, installed, but no air. I don't plan on initially changing any settings from stock, which is what I have been running my marker with to date.

My logic, although maybe not sounds in this case is based off my experience with a G6r, I installed a LP poppit and an aftermarket bolt, I didn't change anything except the HPR to velocity and perceived a benefit from the upgrades.

So my perspective is if you are happy with the stock settings without the mod, then you should be happier with the stock settings AND the mod.
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:09 PM #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky T View Post
The reason that no reference is made to changing any settings on your marker when installing the DART Kit is because every marker will be different; partially due to the users settings (dwell for example) but also potentially due to the equipment that they are using on their markers (air system for example).

Nicky T
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky T View Post
EVERY

MARKER

WILL

BE

DIFFERENT


CAPICHE?

Edit:
As a starting point; yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky T View Post
Whilst i appreciate that, the problem is that there is no universal answer that will apply to all of the Ego11, EgoS and CSL markers out there and the majority of players will not read this thread thoroughly enough to appreciate that.

If you are looking for a starting point, then my advice would be to install the kit with factory settings and take it from there. However, we all know that different players will want different things from this kit; some will want the smoothest shot possible, others will want the most efficient set-up, whilst others may desire a hybrid of the two.

The baseline is stock, factory, reliable settings.

Nicky T
Sounds pretty straight forward to me. I'm going to install the kit when I get it and tune from there...I'm not sure why everyone is confused...install the kit with whatever settings you currently have and tune. There are so many variables that can be different from gun to gun...solenoid adjusters, lpr, dwell.
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:11 PM #220
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Originally Posted by CAOL_98 View Post
I'm not sure why everyone is stupid


Fixed.

That's about 90% of the known universe right there explained.

That's also why services can be extremely lucrative.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:41 AM #221
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OK, here is my opinion on settings:

Take your Ego11/CSL.
Install the new DART kit.
Adjust HPR to get the gun shooting desired velocity.
Go and play paintball.


After installing the DART kit you don't NEED to adjust the LPR.
After installing the DART kit you don't NEED to adjust the Dwell.

However, after installing the DART kit you may want to fine tune the dwell, the LPR, or both. But the choice is yours.

Some people like to tinker and tune. Some people like to pull their gun out of their bag and go play. The DART kit will certainly allow those that DO like to tinker and tune a larger range of adjustment across all parameters over the stock gun. But importantly for those that just like to play, hours spent with gauges, test kits, chonographs and adjustment tables is most definitely not a prerequisite to enjoying and feeling the benefits of this kit.

Jack
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:01 AM #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Wood View Post
OK, here is my opinion on settings:

Take your Ego11/CSL.
Install the new DART kit.
Adjust HPR to get the gun shooting desired velocity.
Go and play paintball.


After installing the DART kit you don't NEED to adjust the LPR.
After installing the DART kit you don't NEED to adjust the Dwell.

However, after installing the DART kit you may want to fine tune the dwell, the LPR, or both. But the choice is yours.

Some people like to tinker and tune. Some people like to pull their gun out of their bag and go play. The DART kit will certainly allow those that DO like to tinker and tune a larger range of adjustment across all parameters over the stock gun. But importantly for those that just like to play, hours spent with gauges, test kits, chonographs and adjustment tables is most definitely not a prerequisite to enjoying and feeling the benefits of this kit.

Jack
Just been speaking to NickyT on another forum. Getting my new EGO11 + DART kit tomorrow hopefully, so his advice was to drop the kit into the marker then shoot it for 2-3 months to get a feel for her - then tweak if I want to change things. So i'll do that
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:47 AM #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Wood View Post
OK, here is my opinion on settings:

Take your Ego11/CSL.
Install the new DART kit.
Adjust HPR to get the gun shooting desired velocity.
Go and play paintball.


After installing the DART kit you don't NEED to adjust the LPR.
After installing the DART kit you don't NEED to adjust the Dwell.

However, after installing the DART kit you may want to fine tune the dwell, the LPR, or both. But the choice is yours.

Some people like to tinker and tune. Some people like to pull their gun out of their bag and go play. The DART kit will certainly allow those that DO like to tinker and tune a larger range of adjustment across all parameters over the stock gun. But importantly for those that just like to play, hours spent with gauges, test kits, chonographs and adjustment tables is most definitely not a prerequisite to enjoying and feeling the benefits of this kit.

Jack
Thank you sir
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:27 AM #224
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It looks photo shopped to me
I thought I was the only one...
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:45 AM #225
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Originally Posted by YeloSno View Post


Fixed.

That's about 90% of the known universe right there explained.

That's also why services can be extremely lucrative.
I was thinking "what? I wrote that...I must have really been irritated with some of the comments!".
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:18 AM #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Wood View Post
But importantly for those that just like to play, hours spent with gauges, test kits, chonographs and adjustment tables is most definitely not a prerequisite to enjoying and feeling the benefits of this kit.
That descibes my use to a "T"

Thanks for taking people like me into account when making new parts.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:54 AM #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Wood View Post
OK, here is my opinion on settings:

Take your Ego11/CSL.
Install the new DART kit.
Adjust HPR to get the gun shooting desired velocity.
Go and play paintball.


After installing the DART kit you don't NEED to adjust the LPR.
After installing the DART kit you don't NEED to adjust the Dwell.

However, after installing the DART kit you may want to fine tune the dwell, the LPR, or both. But the choice is yours.

Some people like to tinker and tune. Some people like to pull their gun out of their bag and go play. The DART kit will certainly allow those that DO like to tinker and tune a larger range of adjustment across all parameters over the stock gun. But importantly for those that just like to play, hours spent with gauges, test kits, chonographs and adjustment tables is most definitely not a prerequisite to enjoying and feeling the benefits of this kit.

Jack
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:21 PM #228
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I just installed the DART kit in my Fluffy Bunnies VEGO 11. Prior to beginning the install I put the gun back to stock with all the factory stock settings (board settings, dwell, LPR, HPR, etc. - adjusted to factory stock per recommendations in Ego manual).

I then put a hopper of reballs through the gun and I was averaging about 275 fps.

I then installed the DART kit and left all of the settings stock. The install went smoothly and was pretty painless. No leaks when I was finished, so that was a good thing.

I then shot a hopper of reballs through the gun. I used the same reballs, same barrel, same chrono, same weather conditions (indoors), etc. and I found that the fps jumped dramatically. I was shooting about 275 fps prior to the install and was shooting about 325 fps after the install. Absolutely everything was the same, except the DART kit.

The gun felt very smooth and the sound signature was a bit quieter. Not super quiet, but it was an improvement.

After adjusting the HPR down to reach 285 fps, I found that it was extremely consistent over the chrono. Definitely more consistent than it was prior to the install of the DART.

All in all I am impressed with the kit. I want to thank PE for continuing to research and find improvements to an already existing gun, instead of slapping it all in a new gun and forcing me to buy a newer model to get all the latest upgrades (and spend a lot more than $95 in the process).

If you have an Ego 11, and spending $95 won't require you to eat ramen noodles for a month, then I 100% recommend you get this kit.

Sorry, no video. I tried to get one using my iPhone, but the quality was horrible and you really couldn't tell what was going on. I guess I am not going to make it in hollywood as a camera man.
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:32 PM #229
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^thanks. ill be ordering mine soon
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:40 PM #230
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Wow, I'm surprised this is considered "news"... Floating o-rings have been around for ever. If you look at Parker's O-ring handbook they discuss floating o-rings for reciprocating applications as being the best way to reduce drag and stiction. They even tell you how to tolerance the parts for the best results. The fact that they are just now implementing this doesn't give me much respect for their engineering and design team.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:44 PM #231
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Sounds legit. Gonna have to pick one up now.
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