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Old 09-12-2012, 01:10 AM #22
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I've played for not much over a year and I'm 22. We're(I'm) saying that it's not as simple as "lower prices". Of course affordability is an issue with paintball, but field owners can't just say "Hey, let's charge less and pray more people come!"
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:17 AM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B3ARC1AW View Post
I don't plan on opening my own field. So your argument is irrelevant. And I was only ever stating my opinion. I've listened to your guys' and seen your point of view. You refuse to listen to mine and think you're "right" when there is no correct answer. The original poster asked for ideas of what people thought could make paintball better in Washington. I simply gave my input stating that if paintball were more affordable as a whole more people would play more often. You haven't given any positive input whatsoever to the thread and won't accept that others can have an opinion different than yours and you have no willingness to see a point of view that isn't yours. From all this I draw that you may be older than me and been around paintball longer than I have, but you sure as hell don't act like it.
Many fields tried to make it more affordable, those fields are no longer open today. paintball rush, tacoma paintball.com indoor, dangerzone indoor, hole in the wall, mikes paintball,battlegrounds paintball, and svp just to name a few they have all closed there doors in the last 5 or so years, to stay open for the players willing to sacrifice to play, or who can afford it to begin with the fields need to charge what they do to stay open.

In a perfect world paintball would be free and the field owners would be millionaires some how, but since fields are business run by people who need to make an income everyone needs to tow the line especially the regular players.

Just to clarify your idea would be great but it will be a near impossibility, with operating cost where they are, and the lower turn out of player that there has been over the last few years.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:20 AM #24
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I think the whole price things comes back to simply adding value. I feel like DBS prices proved a higher value than our customers pay each time they come out, and that is an important part of building a successful business.
period, I have only left your field once less then happy and that was the day I broke my finger, other then that its an amazing experience every time.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:24 AM #25
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Many fields tried to make it more affordable, those fields are no longer open today. paintball rush, tacoma paintball.com indoor, dangerzone indoor, hole in the wall, mikes paintball,battlegrounds paintball, and svp just to name a few they have all closed there doors in the last 5 or so years, to stay open for the players willing to sacrifice to play, or who can afford it to begin with the fields need to charge what they do to stay open.

In a perfect world paintball would be free and the field owners would be millionaires some how, but since fields are business run by people who need to make an income everyone needs to tow the line especially the regular players.

Just to clarify your idea would be great but it will be a near impossibility, with operating cost where they are, and the lower turn out of player that there has been over the last few years.
Tim, are you sober? This post is completely coherent and devoid of belligerence!!
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:29 AM #26
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The problem with these threads is a lot of people want more while paying less. That's not a realistic possibility.

Danny (DC19) is asking what services people are interested in. He is a businessman and he will offer this service if he believes the demand is present at the price that would be required to sustain a business.

Danny loves paintball, but he's got a mortgage and employees to pay.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:43 AM #27
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Well sorry I'm a college student having to pay for school, gas, insurance and other things I need in life. It's a bigger deal to me and younger players that cannot afford to play paintball because fields make it expensive to play. Other posters above have said that fields and refs need to look out for young and new players. They've also said that new people need to be introduced with the sport. It's going to be more difficult to get new, younger players introduced to the sport if it costs as much as it does. I can understand being a business owner or field manager and having to make money. I know how economics work. But being a human being along with a business owner is important too. Many of my friends have quit playing because they couldn't afford it, and I'm about there too. But I try to continue and play because I enjoy it. You guys are asking what does Washington need? It needs to make paintball more affordable to appeal to the masses. You may make less per case of paint, or rental, or field fee, but you'll get more people out to the field that are new and create a larger customer base. Just something to think about.
Hate to break it to you but you don't know how econ works *Disclaimer:I'm no expert* So here it goes...
If you go around the country, paint is a pretty standardized price. Cost of a product to the retailer is worked out through tariffs, taxes, production costs, transportation costs, etc.The capitalist market place works itself out through competition (this is why we see comparable products selling for comparable prices). Eventually there is an equilibrium price (what the consumer, you and me, have to pay) is found. On a supply curve, this is where the total value (i.e. the number of people*the price) of the product is maximized. Now let's think about all the overhead of a paintball field: Property tax/rent, wages for employees, maintaining the fields, insurance, paint costs... the list goes on and on. All of those things add up quickly. Field owners are the furthest thing from money hungry buffoons. It takes a lot to be a small business owner. Thankfully, their work enables us to follow our passion. They're doing us all a huge favor. Let's follow the OP's original request and drop the subject of price.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:30 AM #28
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You guys can argue byop , prices of entry and paint till your blue in the face but you have to admit that means nothing if you dont have players. I see this all the time kids start playing. fields shut down and they loose they place to play and so they quite and thats exactly whats happening here in eastern washington were loosing fields and shops and kids are either quiting or going somewhere else to play. And some people just dont have the money to do that. Before you guys even start talking about paint entry any of that we need a place to play.
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Old 09-12-2012, 05:13 AM #29
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south west WA finally has it going on... NW Ambush has been a staple in the NW paintball seen and is still here, and on top of that Royal Ridges (who offer paint, but is also BYOB) has updated and more regularly opening their speedball field.
I couldnt ask for more really, other than more sunday practices not saturday.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:27 AM #30
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For me price isn't as big of an issue as experience. I am willing to pay more if the facility and experience is worth it. Offer a better product and people will buy it. That's pretty simple in my head.

And if money is your argument, budget better. I have bills to pay just like everyone else. Mortgage, insurance, car and bills. If I want to play I budget the money in order to play. Also pretty simple
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:14 AM #31
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OK Here goes don't hate me. I have only played at 4 feilds in the local area and if paintball wants to survive it needs new players which means young players it's not to often a 30 something or older gets into playing. I have gone to local feilds and watched young players get shot up for no reason. Yelling, cursing and fighting amongst players in front of young players and their parents, and lets not mention even some drinking and smoking. Refs need to take a more active role in not only the game but managing the field, it is their responsibility to not only manage the game but to make sure it is an enjoyable experience for everyone involved. Refs are responsible for keeping the game fair but they also represent the field, the sport, and they can make a difference in if someone is going to come back and recommend the sport. My 9 cents!
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:31 AM #32
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^^^

Agreed!! It only takes a few jerks to ruin the several dozen people's recball experience.
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:28 AM #33
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I have to throw my two cents in here. As somebody who has worked on the Distribution side of paintball for a long time and have traveled across the country visiting different stores and fields. The issue is this: As the price of paintballs and equipment starting coming down in the late 90's and early 2000's the average age of the player started getting lower and lower. It was cheaper to play so more kids could talk mom into dropping the cash to go and play. Combine this with the advances in technology (cheap electro guns with Ramping) this resulted in immature kids being armed with machine guns and little self control. This rapidly increased the speed at which older players (guys with jobs and disposable income) left the sport. Then the recession hit and Mom's were spending money on groceries not paintball. So that is where we are at as an Industry.

Well run businesses like DBS, CPX, Skirmish will continue to do well. Cheaper prices are not the answer. Danny does it right. He provides a top level service and experience, for a good price.

Paintball is not a cheap hobby or sport. We as players have to understand that its NOT FOR EVERYBODY. Meaning not everybody is going to be able to afford to play, or afford to play as much as they would like.

There is a really nice indoor field up in BC, they get $130 a case and guess what? They are doing great. I am thankful there are places like DBS where I can go and play and have a great time for a great price.

Back to the original topic Danny was asking about, my suggestion to make paintball better everywhere is to eliminate the tolerance of jerks and idiots at fields. They ruin the fun for all the first timers and regulars. Adopt a NO TOLERANCE policy. If you are a jerk, cheater, over shoot renters and little kids, you dont need to be there. This will bring back the older customer base of guys between 20-35 with jobs, disposable income, that spend THEIR money not MOM's.

If you disagree, I invite you to PM me.
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:51 AM #34
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Back to the original topic Danny was asking about, my suggestion to make paintball better everywhere is to eliminate the tolerance of jerks and idiots at fields. They ruin the fun for all the first timers and regulars. Adopt a NO TOLERANCE policy. If you are a jerk, cheater, over shoot renters and little kids, you dont need to be there. This will bring back the older customer base of guys between 20-35 with jobs, disposable income, that spend THEIR money not MOM's.

If you disagree, I invite you to PM me.
This is the biggest way to increase the paintball scene in general. I have played at most of the fields in the NW and the majority of them have refs that are afraid to tell someone to leave for doing any of the above things.

Another thing that is "easily" done would be youth programs at fields. Down here at DHP our youth program is thriving and they are having a blast. The key is to not just have them pay a monthly fee to play but they pay their fee's and we train them in everything from playing to sportsmanship and everything in between, not to mention showing their parents the best sides of the sport and what it can really do for them. This gives us the opportunity to train the next generation and we do our part to get rid of the prima donnas in the industry.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:42 PM #35
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I would really like to see a East side WA maybe a DBS Spokane.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:00 PM #36
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It's but a dream; but I wish for a Seattle SODO indoor field.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:04 PM #37
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In the early 2000's when I played a lot of paintball, there was a real incentive to play. If you won tournaments, you could get prizes valued beyond the costs associated with registering and traveling to events. Hell even 2nd made a profit and at 3rd place at least you would break even in a local event.

Now-a-day if you win an event, you still spend more than you will receive as a prize. The love of the game is really all that keeps me coming back for the next tourney.

This 'love' is not present for would-be paintball players. It needs to be developed. There needs to be an incentive to get new players out to the field. The economist above will tell you the most basic principle of econ is that people will respond to incentives.

I'm not saying prizes are the complete answer I'm building to the greater idea of: Until attitudes change from depression orientation and people are ready to invest (key term) in growing the sport, with less emphasis on their bottom line, we will continue to see the same thing we see now.

I want to talk more about how better incentives may not be the best for the bottom line in the present but there will be gains in the future, also the money multiplier effect in niche economy's but I don't expect anyone reading this is willing to make the short-run sacrifice. Nor do I believe there would be enough stakeholders on-board to to effectively execute this.

Slug rant ended early for mutually beneficial reasons.

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Old 09-12-2012, 02:28 PM #38
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It's but a dream; but I wish for a Seattle SODO indoor field.
I recognize how unrealistic this is, but it would be awesome.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:45 PM #39
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It's but a dream; but I wish for a Seattle SODO indoor field.
LIKE! where's the damn LIKE button?
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:08 PM #40
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I've mentioned an idea or two to Danny, but they came up short in the practicality end of things.

Honestly? Everything has an opportunity cost. How a person decides to spend their money depends on what they can reasonably (and sometimes unreasonably) afford after all the bills have been paid. This is disposable income that has to get distributed across ALL the various things one can spend it on (gas, food, cigarettes, alcohol, hobbies, etc.).

A hobby like paintball is considered a luxury sport because of the cost of participation. Not everyone can afford to play, but for those who can - once you get to that point, you have arrived at the starting point for this discussion, as you remove participation costs or Pricing from the picture.

Questions
- How can the sport of paintball be made more accessible for those who are able to afford to play?
- How do you identify potential new players based on what you know about regulars that play at your fields now?
- If you have national, local, and your local field's demographics of the sport, how does that data compare to each other?
- How are rental players treated by your local field/field staff/refs?
- How are rental players treated by the regular players?
- What "extra" stuff does your local field do that goes above and beyond what other fields do by comparison?
- Do those little things sway the balance when you are choosing where to play?
- Do teams/team players practice or play at your field?
- What impressions do teams/team players leave walk-ons, rental players, first-timers, etc., with at the end of the day? Good/bad/indifferent?
- How much effort do local fields put forth by asking regular players to promote them? For example - asking players to pass out business cards with discount offers or other promotional ideas...
- How involved in a local field's operations are players invited to participate? By this, I mean assisting with field prep, maintenance, helping players observe the rules, teaching newbies how to get air or fix simple problems, for example (with considerations for those efforts like a bag of paint, waive entry/air fees, drinks, snacks, etc.).

Give me a reason to evangelize for paintball, and I'll do it. Give me an audience, and I'll preach it.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:12 PM #41
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IMO to OP.

public recognizition would solve most to all problems everyone is bringing up. either cost to play, not enough players, amount of fields, etc.
if we had a way to show the public how great our sport is.
it would bring in more people to play and watch, which in turn will bring more buisness for fields and stores, which would allow big companys to lower prices which would allow fields and stores to lower as well. more stores/ fields open. and so on.

it would be fantastic to get it into schools, weither thats just college or if thats highschool. being a younger kid, at almost 18, we are the future, our money will be able to thrive buisnesses. and without growth, we will go no where and prices will stay the same.

im not sure on how to bring the public in, but there has to be a way to do it. nothing is impossible, it just takes work. this is the same as how baseball, football, soccer, etc all started.
weither thats commercials that are friendly, showing the usual rentals, or to the competitave woodsball / speedball players. maybe media, such as news, or something to just show the average person that thinks paintball is just kids shooting signs or cars, to just going into the woods and shooting people as a violent sport. they should know the actual intense competitions such as PSP, CXBL, NPPL, Europe, asia, etc.


just my input.

thanks,
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:34 PM #42
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Fundraisers, being involved in the community, hell just talking to people outside of the normal paintball walls. Teams volunteering with community outreach programs and making a name for themselves, basically give people/businesses outside of paintball a reason to want to be involved, show that we are not just a bunch of miscreants running around and shooting each other.

Once the public sees us in a better light they will want to be more involved.
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