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Old 05-09-2013, 11:50 AM #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
To be clear, there were 54 attacks on diplomatic targets in Bush's presidency resulting in 13 deaths.
Are you referring to US citizens killed? Because in just the year of 2002, 17 people were killed.

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Originally Posted by Blake360 View Post
Nobody must have told you the significance of Benghazi is because of the coverup, not the actual attack. How many of those attacks in your list there involved a coverup by the bush administration? I'm going to guess 0.
And what exactly are they covering up, Mr. Conspiracy?
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:16 PM #632
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Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
Are you referring to US citizens killed? Because in just the year of 2002, 17 people were killed.
I had just read somewhere that 13 "diplomatic targets" (whatever the **** that really means) had been killed in the Middle East under Bush (all of which received significantly less media attention). I may be mistaken though. My point was really the 54 attacks, showing that a diplomatic attack in the middle east in the current era is not something worth talking about. The only reason this is an issue is because there was an election and the GOP was desperate. There have been 3 hearing so far (petraeus, clinton, and now the investigation committee) all of which have been promised to show us the true evil of this "cover-up conspiracy" and all 3 have failed to do so.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:17 PM #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
And what exactly are they covering up, Mr. Conspiracy?
I watched Gregory Hicks's testimony on CSPAN and listened to his responses to the questions presented by Rep. Cummings, and I'm more confused than ever as to what I'm supposed to be outraged over.

I didn't get to see much by Nordstrom or Thompson, nor did I see any of the subsequent questioning of Hicks, so it's entirely possible that the spark to my ready-fueled outrage is there.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:18 PM #634
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Has there been a statement on why reinforcements were never sent?
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:21 PM #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
I had just read somewhere that 13 "diplomatic targets" (whatever the **** that really means) had been killed in the Middle East under Bush (all of which received significantly less media attention). I may be mistaken though. My point was really the 54 attacks, showing that a diplomatic attack in the middle east in the current era is not something worth talking about. The only reason this is an issue is because there was an election and the GOP was desperate. There have been 3 hearing so far (petraeus, clinton, and now the investigation committee) all of which have been promised to show us the true evil of this "cover-up conspiracy" and all 3 have failed to do so.
Well, from what I've posted, a lot of people died in similar situations to Benghazi under the Bush administration. Whether or not they were all American citizens, I don't have the time to confirm right now.

For the second part of your post, I'm completely with you. Blown way out of proportion for something that is a regular event. They claim bad security, but anytime an attack happens, bad security is to blame. The election was the only reason this was getting any coverage whatsoever.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:24 PM #636
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Ya, sorry, I was trying to simply expand upon your point, not argue against it. Should have made myself more clear.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:29 PM #637
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Has there been a statement on why reinforcements were never sent?
Sent from where? Tripoli or forces from outside Libya?
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:54 PM #638
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Sent from where? Tripoli or forces from outside Libya?
MEU and Carrier group in the Persian Gulf, FAST Company in Italy, SF group in Tripoli.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:21 PM #639
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MEU and Carrier group in the Mediterranean, FAST Company in Italy, SF group in Tripoli.
I'm going from memory here, so if I'm wrong please correct me:

The stationed MEU in the Med (26th?) had been yanked in 2009 and thus wasn't available to head south into Libya. I don't believe there was a carrier group because all reports I've seen indicate that the closest air support would have come from Aviano off the northern Adriatic Sea, which itself presented logistical problems being 1000+ miles away (Hicks testified that he was informed of difficulties getting tankers over the Med. in a reasonable amount of time).

As far as FAST company in Naples is concerned, I was under the impression that it was on inactive status. I believe FAST on the ground after the attack was stationed in Spain.

I think the SF in Tripoli did go into Benghazi, but were instructed to secure en route to the airport for the evacuation of annex/consulate personnel.

The main questions in my mind are 1. why there wasn't more of an American military presence in the country, especially considering it had been little over a year since Tripoli and Zlitan had fallen and 2. where the hell was the assistance from Libya's GNC?

EDIT: how fast could a MEU in the Persian Gulf have reached northeast Libya? I don't have any idea; would it be less than 4 hours?
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:55 PM #640
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Has there been a statement on why reinforcements were never sent?
Because Obama told them to stand down.
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:56 PM #641
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the lols is so strong, because this benghazi silliness that the GOP is desperately pushing

1. Further reinforces and demonstrates how self referential the GOP has become
2. Makes the GOP look worse, if you actually follow the trail (which so few are doing because so few care), because of the lack of embassy security was due to a lack of funding...
3. Shows just how bad another one of the talking points coming from that side is. In a time where a lot of Republican leaders are struggling to get their message heard, they are further diluting the brand, so to speak, by bringing up fluff.

with firearm prices going down i think even the right is starting to realize they dont believe the nightmare stories they have predicted about this president.

whats funny is Obama is such a mediocre president. its not hard to make him look bad.
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:11 PM #642
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2. Makes the GOP look worse, if you actually follow the trail (which so few are doing because so few care)
I bet the families of the people that were murdered because of obama and hillary care.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:51 PM #643
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From what I understand, this is what is going to happen....

1) The leftists will say there is no cover up. You all are silly and just let it die. No left media will cover the topic because, well, obvious reasoning.

2) The rightists will say there is a cover up because most of the things the left said or did makes absolutely no sense and seems incredibly fishy.

3) The hearing will result in not much happening because its pretty damn hard to pin something like Benghazi on the White House since, well, its the White House who holds all power to successfully cover something up.

4) A large amount of time will go by and eventually someone will discover the truth, but discovering the truth about anything relating to Benghazi years down the road after the administration is gone will be pointless.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:35 PM #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StellarKnight View Post
I'm going from memory here, so if I'm wrong please correct me:

The stationed MEU in the Med (26th?) had been yanked in 2009 and thus wasn't available to head south into Libya. I don't believe there was a carrier group because all reports I've seen indicate that the closest air support would have come from Aviano off the northern Adriatic Sea, which itself presented logistical problems being 1000+ miles away (Hicks testified that he was informed of difficulties getting tankers over the Med. in a reasonable amount of time).

As far as FAST company in Naples is concerned, I was under the impression that it was on inactive status. I believe FAST on the ground after the attack was stationed in Spain.

I think the SF in Tripoli did go into Benghazi, but were instructed to secure en route to the airport for the evacuation of annex/consulate personnel.

The main questions in my mind are 1. why there wasn't more of an American military presence in the country, especially considering it had been little over a year since Tripoli and Zlitan had fallen and 2. where the hell was the assistance from Libya's GNC?

EDIT: how fast could a MEU in the Persian Gulf have reached northeast Libya? I don't have any idea; would it be less than 4 hours?
MEU was in the Gulf. Where in the Gulf I don't know, but I have a friend serving on it. They were standing by and making best speed. But they have helicopters and planes. I believe there was also a carrier (USS Stennis?) that was with it, so that meant F18s were capable of launching, even for a show of force. It would have been tough to go through several countries air space, but realistically, that's a few phone calls by elected officials. They wouldn't have much ToS, but it would have been something, especially when guys on the ground were talking about a mortar position that needed to be bombed.

Carrier doesn't need to go far to project power. You draw a 1000 mile circle around a carrier and nothing larger than a seagull exists without its permission. It can strike deeper than that with refueling. Not too mention, its fighters could have diverted to Europe or even gotten tanker support from American bases in Europe.

There's no such thing as an inactive FAST Company. They're active duty forces and they're supposed to always stand up a 50 man platoon. If in fact they weren't ready, several officers should be relieved for dereliction of duty. Platoon should be ready to move out within 6 hours if not sooner. The FAST unit didn't go in until the next day.

SF requested, several times apparently, to go in. Denied several times. They were a small group and most likely would have been more casualties.


The point is, there were ways to get some forces to Benghazi, while the attacks were still going on. They were not authorized. Furthermore, when it was obvious from the beginning that this was a terrorist attack, the administration continued to push to the public that it was simply a demonstration gone bad over some anti-Islam youtube movie (I mean, everyone brings mortars and machine guns to demonstrations, right?)

Frankly, I think the American people deserve an explanation as to why an ambassador of the United States and his security personnel repeatedly asked for help/evacuation and were denied.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:51 PM #645
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The Benghazi attack went on for more than 8 hours... No one was authorized to help. A couple of former Seals went anyway breaking orders... And helped save over 30 people.

Then died while targeting the enemy's location with lazers hoping for a missile to take out said bad guys, which never came. But, at least Obama got to his fundraiser! And don't worry, the media will cover this up, just like they always do for "their" party.

Our country is a joke, and our ambassador was killed by Muslim extremists. But, they are doing their best to pretend like that didn't happen, and push the focus on something else.

It is wag the dog all over again... Because really "What difference does it make?" (that is what Hillary ACTUALLY said when asked about it...)

funny how no one died in watergate, and yet for some reason IT was a story, and this isn't...

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Old 05-10-2013, 12:59 PM #646
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It is wag the dog all over again... Because really "What difference does it make?" (that is what Hillary ACTUALLY said when asked about it...)
Leave it to you to take that quote entirely out of context, just so it fits your views. Hillary actually said this:

"With all due respect, the fact is we had four dead Americans. Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night decided to go kill some Americans? What difference at this point does it make? It is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again."

Misinformation is a bad thing to spread, especially when you're trying to claim misinformation being spread by others.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:07 PM #647
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who really cares? It isn't like the media will cover this anyway... So NO information is what I am complaining about.

According to the public, they only think Benghazi happened because of a youtube video... Remember that was the cause.

How many people died when the administration blamed that video as the cause of the problems then there were demonstrations all over the world as Muslims got all bent out of shape as the white house was blaming a youtube video and giving them ammo for their hate of America...

It makes a HUGE difference, as this administration CAUSED those other riots and deaths by blaming the youtube video. They lit the match so to speak.

So, yeah, thanks for clearing that up, as clearly Hillary is complicit in carrying that false narrative to get Obama re-elected.

But, don't worry, it won't be a national news story, because clearly there are two sets of rules for our country's liberal/media. Don't hurt your own, and always attack the person bringing up damage to your liberal, by attempting to smear them...
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:15 PM #648
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this administration CAUSED those other riots and deaths by blaming the youtube video.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:22 PM #649
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Guess you didn't realize that, huh...

There were riots all over after Obama had his administration blamed the youtube video. That is common knowledge now... Which is another reason this is such a big deal. They caused people to be killed by putting out a false narrative.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/14/wo...emen.html?_r=0

"Deadly outrage in the Arab world over an American-made video insulting Islam’s founder spread to at least half a dozen places across the Middle East on Thursday and threatened to draw in Afghanistan, two days after assailants in Libya killed four American diplomatic personnel, including the ambassador, and caused a foreign policy political clash in the United States."
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:27 PM #650
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Leave it to you to take that quote entirely out of context, just so it fits your views. Hillary actually said this:

"With all due respect, the fact is we had four dead Americans. Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night decided to go kill some Americans? What difference at this point does it make? It is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again."

Misinformation is a bad thing to spread, especially when you're trying to claim misinformation being spread by others.
The fact that you are trying to show the entire quote in an attempt to make Clinton's words and actions seems less horrific is astounding. Really Teghc, thats pretty low of you. I especially like this quote because when Hillary said it, she already knew that EVERY SINGLE FREAKING ADVISER AND SOURCE SAID IT WAS A TERRORIST ATTACK FROM THE BEGINNING!!!

Truth is, everyone cares except for people who highly support the Obama administration.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:43 PM #651
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who really cares? It isn't like the media will cover this anyway... So NO information is what I am complaining about.
Two things here:

1 - While I was listening to NPR on my way to work this morning, they were covering it. It wasn't a major story because it's simply being rehashed through the previous investigations which turned up nothing previously.

2 - By this response, it seems you have a problem with the media? Is it the government we're mad at or the media? Why are you mad at the media? It's not their job to inform us. In a capitalistic nation, it's their job to make money. Blaming them for anything is about as useful as string cheese in a gun fight.

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According to the public, they only think Benghazi happened because of a youtube video... Remember that was the cause.
And the White House has reiterated that the video was used as an excuse. Not too far from their original statement. Not sure why this matters to begin with.

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How many people died when the administration blamed that video as the cause of the problems then there were demonstrations all over the world as Muslims got all bent out of shape as the white house was blaming a youtube video and giving them ammo for their hate of America...
Honestly, I don't know. Do you have a figure for me?

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It makes a HUGE difference, as this administration CAUSED those other riots and deaths by blaming the youtube video. They lit the match so to speak.
Which riots? Which deaths?

Quote:
So, yeah, thanks for clearing that up, as clearly Hillary is complicit in carrying that false narrative to get Obama re-elected.

But, don't worry, it won't be a national news story, because clearly there are two sets of rules for our country's liberal/media. Don't hurt your own, and always attack the person bringing up damage to your liberal, by attempting to smear them...
Both sides of the fence do this. As I've stated in this very thread, the media does not lean to the liberal side of things, even though this country is realistically rather liberal anyways.

This story isn't getting media coverage because it's actually a pretty common event and holds littler interest to the American people. Why should the American people care about whether a Youtube video was the cause of the attack or not? Please explain to me how this effects our lives.

I posted just on the previous page about 13 similar attacks that occurred during the Bush administration. Why didn't the media cover those? And why is this story more significant than those attacks?

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The fact that you are trying to show the entire quote in an attempt to make Clinton's words and actions seems less horrific is astounding. Really Teghc, thats pretty low of you. I especially like this quote because when Hillary said it, she already knew that EVERY SINGLE FREAKING ADVISER AND SOURCE SAID IT WAS A TERRORIST ATTACK FROM THE BEGINNING!!!

Truth is, everyone cares except for people who highly support the Obama administration.
This wreaks of stupidity. Quotes should be shown in context, not blindly thrown around as scrunched up little bits that can be taken in any way the narrator wants.

Hillary was saying that people died, regardless of how it occurred. What matters is that we figure out how to stop it from happening again. Do you disagree? You'd care more about rhetoric over figuring out how to stop such attacks from occurring again?

Your Caps Lock "yelling" means nothing. Hillary's quote says nothing about identifying the origin of the attacks. So I don't get what you're trying to say.

Your last bit is more idiocy. I'm not even an Obama supporter, but I can at least take a step back and view the overly bias bull**** steaming through the neo-con extremists trying to use this as an excuse for... anything.
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