Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-20-2012, 06:16 PM #127
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Fish View Post
True he did say and less. Awkward uasage of language. Between 50 k and 250 k would have better terminology. The way he stated it, it seems to be 200k to 250K as the median when in actuality it represents the upper middle class. In any event Obama wants to increase taxes on people who make in excess of 250k and if you want more accurate labels name them the top 5%. I am trying to point out Romney has little common with most Americans. To the point where he would deny people the very programs that helped his own fatter get a leg up.
So why did you quote me?
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 09-20-2012, 06:52 PM #128
Swerve22
 
 
Swerve22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Concord NH
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
Keeping your money in offshore accounts and Cayman banks isn't against the law. The IRS can't do anything. But it is super hypocritical to criticize others for not paying taxes while using every shady loophole in the book to not pay yours.
He's paid plenty in taxes, and also donated plenty to charity.

He was stating that he's not going to go after them politically and decrying the entitlement mentality. He made a mistake in that I don't think it's 47%, but both points are true - his tax message doesn't resonate with people that don't pay income tax, and there is a huge problem in this country with the growing entitlement mentality. His only mistake was linking the together. Not everyone that doesn't pay taxes has an entitlement mentality, and not everyone that has an entitlement mentality doesn't pay taxes.

Romney has reapeated multiple times that he would like every american to be paying taxes because that means that every American would be working better jobs (or jobs period). He is interested in growing the economy and paying down the debt, not telling people that they deserve a larger share of a shrinking pie paid for at others expense.
__________________
Butthurt Conservative.

www.gunfacts.info
Swerve22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 07:04 PM #129
drgonzo
Half-cocked
 
drgonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
Romney has reapeated multiple times that he would like every american to be paying taxes because that means that every American would be working better jobs (or jobs period).
Guess no one told him every American pays taxes, with the possible exception of children who die very young.
__________________
PUMPPB.COM - Pump paintball forums
HawaiiPB.com - Paintball forums for the state of Hawaii
HawaiiPB/PumpPB - Our videos | Droidtiles.com - NFC Tags for Android and mobile devices
drgonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 07:41 PM #130
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
He's paid plenty in taxes, and also donated plenty to charity.

He was stating that he's not going to go after them politically and decrying the entitlement mentality. He made a mistake in that I don't think it's 47%, but both points are true - his tax message doesn't resonate with people that don't pay income tax, and there is a huge problem in this country with the growing entitlement mentality. His only mistake was linking the together. Not everyone that doesn't pay taxes has an entitlement mentality, and not everyone that has an entitlement mentality doesn't pay taxes.

Romney has reapeated multiple times that he would like every american to be paying taxes because that means that every American would be working better jobs (or jobs period). He is interested in growing the economy and paying down the debt, not telling people that they deserve a larger share of a shrinking pie paid for at others expense.
It's hypocritical to use loopholes to not pay the correct amount of taxes while criticizing others for not paying the right amount of taxes.
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 07:45 PM #131
Swerve22
 
 
Swerve22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Concord NH
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
It's hypocritical to use loopholes to not pay the correct amount of taxes while criticizing others for not paying the right amount of taxes.
Logic fail. He's not saying anybody isn't paying the "right amount of taxes". He's lamenting that so many don't pay any taxes and lamenting the culture of dependency. There's nothing illegal with having an account in the caymans. Quit hatin'.
__________________
Butthurt Conservative.

www.gunfacts.info
Swerve22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 08:20 PM #132
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
Logic fail. He's not saying anybody isn't paying the "right amount of taxes". He's lamenting that so many don't pay any taxes and lamenting the culture of dependency.
He is criticizing 47% for being dependent because they don't pay all of their taxes. They do pay sales tax. They do pay payroll taxes in most cases. They pay a lot of taxes. All of them except one. Mitt Romney is criticizing them for not paying all their taxes; just most of them.

Mitt Romney also uses loopholes to not pay certain types of taxes. He uses offshore accounts to not pay types of taxes. He uses tax shelters to not pay certain types of taxes.

Therefore he is hypocritical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
There's nothing illegal with having an account in the caymans. Quit hatin'.
I believe I already said that... I'm not saying what he is doing is illegal. It isn't. But what the 47%ers are doing isn't illegal either. This isn't an argument of legality; it is one of principle.
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 09:12 PM #133
drgonzo
Half-cocked
 
drgonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
I believe I already said that... I'm not saying what he is doing is illegal. It isn't. But what the 47%ers are doing isn't illegal either. This isn't an argument of legality; it is one of principle.
Pwnership society.
__________________
PUMPPB.COM - Pump paintball forums
HawaiiPB.com - Paintball forums for the state of Hawaii
HawaiiPB/PumpPB - Our videos | Droidtiles.com - NFC Tags for Android and mobile devices
drgonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 12:22 AM #134
Tin-Man
 
 
Tin-Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Grand Portage, MN
Annual Supporting Member
Tin-Man is BST Trusted
Tin-Man plays in the PSP
Tin-Man is playing at Living Legends VI
Tin-Man supports Team VICIOUS
Tin-Man plays in the APPA D4 division
Tin-Man has achieved Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
Tin-Man supports Empire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
He's paid plenty in taxes, and also donated plenty to charity.
13-14% is not 'plenty' when he is criticizing those that get 'government handouts'. And that number is by his own admission. Yes he is paying what he is required to pay by law, but hussled his little *** off to make sure that the Buffett rule never passed.

What he fails to mention is that he himself received those 'handouts' when he took tax breaks for investment income. And Fox is unfortunately precipitating the stereotype by saying that 70% of households got some sort of government 'handout' in the past 5 years without specifying that includes tax credits, rebates (including that amazing $300 cheque Bush signed us all up for), social security, student credits/loans. All of which I would have never considered 'handouts'.

Here is my issue; I'm a white, Christian, well-educated individual making >200,000k annually. I should be firmly in the Republican pocket. But I just can't justify supporting a platform that in recent years has been more about beating up gays, reducing support programs for those less fortunate, and increasing the gap between middle and upper class. My family came to this country already fairly well off from Canada, and have made a very successful business (although it is local, being one of the largest independent pharmacies in a district cannot be considered 'small' business I think).

I'm not all that supportive of the Democrats because I know that the current spending is unsustainable without raising taxes. However, if the Republicans had allowed the Bush-era tax cuts to expire (which were created in a much more favourable economic climate) instead of voting them down, we would have increased the nation debt by a fraction of what it currently is increasing by daily.

Dump Ryan, get Paul and maybe he has a shot. I do believe that after the two weeks of fiascos that have been occurring, he's going to crash and burn on election day unless there is a video released where Biden blows a horse.
__________________
#60 - PROUD MEMBER OF THE EMPIRE ARMY SINCE 2014
Thunder Bay Defiance Paintball - Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada


Axe Pro LE (Red/Silver) - $400.00
Empire Superfreak - Gloss Black - Full Kit - $120.00
Tin-Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 07:26 AM #135
F1VENOM
 
 
F1VENOM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
 has been a member for 10 years
Did anyone else notice Mittens making another gaff at his Univision interview? He's been watching too much Jersey Shore or he needs to fire his campaign manager for allowing him to walk on stage like that. I don't think it was deliberate but once again his disconnect from reality is being discussed.
__________________
"Originally posted by visualx: hey everyone, look at me. i call people poor though i make absolutely nothing; brag about my job as an intern or some ****; hate on people for not being fat like me; and absolutely never have any idea what i'm talking about, though i always have a ****ing righteous indignation with everything i say! aren't i ****ing amazing?! do you all like me yet?! oh, you know that hate is just a guise! good thing i have a ****ing amazing life! now let me go **** my fat girlfriend and cry myself to sleep"
F1VENOM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 10:03 AM #136
情けない
武士道&
 
情けない's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 日本
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin-Man View Post
13-14% is not 'plenty' when he is criticizing those that get 'government handouts'. And that number is by his own admission. Yes he is paying what he is required to pay by law, but hussled his little *** off to make sure that the Buffett rule never passed.
Except that he was already taxed on that money once when he originally earned it as well.

情けない is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 10:21 AM #137
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Guys the quote only mentioned income tax. Where the hell are you getting this "dont pay any taxes" ?
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 11:10 AM #138
Eric the Fish
 
 
Eric the Fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Actually one of the tax rates Romney and other financial investment firms get at 15% is for investing OTHER entities money and then getting paid for it. They call it capital gains. I'd call if pay for work done and should be taxed appropriately.
Eric the Fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 11:18 AM #139
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
Logic fail. He's not saying anybody isn't paying the "right amount of taxes". He's lamenting that so many don't pay any taxes and lamenting the culture of dependency. There's nothing illegal with having an account in the caymans. Quit hatin'.
You are arguing the wrong sentiment. The divide between the left and the right on this "gaffe" is actually over government dependency. Dont take the bait swerve it makes you look like hypocritical ***** when you debate the tax aspect.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 12:49 PM #140
Swerve22
 
 
Swerve22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Concord NH
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
You are arguing the wrong sentiment. The divide between the left and the right on this "gaffe" is actually over government dependency. Dont take the bait swerve it makes you look like hypocritical ***** when you debate the tax aspect.
You're corect and I also mentioned no taxes when I meant income taxes. Romney confused the two groups causing the gaffe, but his main argument was pretty much as simple as saying die hard fans will always support their guy - so there's no point in wasting allyour political effort going for them you you have your own side and the middle to go after.

He also made the point about government dependency, but like I said his only mistake was euqating the 47% with the dependnecy mentality - some of them may buy in to it and some may not - to seperate groups of people.
__________________
Butthurt Conservative.

www.gunfacts.info
Swerve22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 12:53 PM #141
Swerve22
 
 
Swerve22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Concord NH
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Fish View Post
Actually one of the tax rates Romney and other financial investment firms get at 15% is for investing OTHER entities money and then getting paid for it. They call it capital gains. I'd call if pay for work done and should be taxed appropriately.
If you want less people investing in startups and other business and thus creating less opportunity for economic growth then yeah, that's a great idea.

Just so we don't forget how startups have been doing lately under the Obama admin:

http://www.hudson.org/files/publicat...ion0912web.pdf

__________________
Butthurt Conservative.

www.gunfacts.info
Swerve22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 01:06 PM #142
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
You're corect and I also mentioned no taxes when I meant income taxes. Romney confused the two groups causing the gaffe, but his main argument was pretty much as simple as saying die hard fans will always support their guy - so there's no point in wasting allyour political effort going for them you you have your own side and the middle to go after.

He also made the point about government dependency, but like I said his only mistake was euqating the 47% with the dependnecy mentality - some of them may buy in to it and some may not - to seperate groups of people.
When you add up all the people dependent on government either through payroll or social programs, what is the percentage?

I mean beyond that, is the position of the right not about individual responsibility and unified culture thus direction? Put in the simplest terms possible of course. Shouldnt the energy be put in that alternative to the left's vision? Fixing the economy and tax code is great, but without any sense of direction for society as a whole, the right is going to fail and has failed. Prosperity or not.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 01:27 PM #143
Swerve22
 
 
Swerve22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Concord NH
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
When you add up all the people dependent on government either through payroll or social programs, what is the percentage?
I think the more correct question would be what percent are currently recieving more in benefits than they are paying in. Ideally what percent percieve themselves as receiving more than they are paying in. I'm not sure what percent that is and cant' seem to find it quickly googling while at work, but that is where you'll find the fostering of an entitlement mentality.

Quote:
I mean beyond that, is the position of the right not about individual responsibility and unified culture thus direction? Put in the simplest terms possible of course. Shouldnt the energy be put in that alternative to the left's vision? Fixing the economy and tax code is great, but without any sense of direction for society as a whole, the right is going to fail and has failed. Prosperity or not.
Unfortuntely change in culture impacts the direction of society more than any sort of governmetn policy that could be reasonably enacted in a free western society. In my opinion the "culture war" has been lost and we now live in a society and culture where "individual liberty" is valued over cultural prosperity. Things that are considered "ok" and even "cool" in todays society are generally things that hurt our society as a whole and cause the degredation of the family, lower educations, higher crime and drug usage, etc. etc. These are things such as sex out of wedlock, acceptance of divorce, and all those other things that nobody wants to stand up for for fear of being labeled a holy roller or a church and state uniter or whatever.

EDIT: I'm saying these things can't be fixed by government policy. Unless our culture starts heading in a direction, no amount of regulatory tweaking be it fiscal, economical, or whatever will solve the fact that America is headed for decline.
__________________
Butthurt Conservative.

www.gunfacts.info
Swerve22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 01:43 PM #144
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Precisely why I've been saying that any attempts on the right to use government to force cultural norms is ineffective. But yes, absolute individual autonomy is not only mythology, but completely destructive. But hey it sounds good at parties and is appealing to emotions so it must be correct right?
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 01:49 PM #145
chodeyg
sprezzatura
 
chodeyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: via lactea
The culture war was conveniently only brought up by one side, much of that was lamentation over gay rights and abortion etc. It's kind of like al gore heading climate change; complaints about a culture war led by pat Robertson and bill o Reilly types were bound to rub people the wrong way and divide people based on party lines.

It is unfortunate that few have noticed the breakdown of taboos, including greater acceptance of children out of wedlock like you said. Such things have an impact on the economy that is hard to measure in terms of what could have been. I am hoping that polarization will break down a bit after this election.
__________________
Resurrect dead on planet Jupiter
chodeyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 01:51 PM #146
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
The culture war is a machination of leftist ideology. It shouldnt come at any surprise to anyone that the right brings it up considering they are for cultural consensus.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 01:58 PM #147
chodeyg
sprezzatura
 
chodeyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: via lactea
It would be hard to point a finger at either party for the individualistic attitude of US citizens, I am pretty sure that culture of individuality and excess has been in our DNA for quite some time. There is more to our culture problem than family ideology. What about people who never recycle? And people who drive around, alone, in empty pickup trucks and SUVs?
__________________
Resurrect dead on planet Jupiter
chodeyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump