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Old 10-15-2012, 06:17 PM #274
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There is nothing conservative about what Bush did to our country.
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:08 PM #275
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They're not a branch of anything, actually
Philosophically pal. Yes.
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:15 PM #276
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Well this is the internet and there is no way to prove or disprove my response to follow.

I've tried cannabis 4 times 4 separate occasions 4 different ways (vaporizer, bong, pipe, and brownie). I don't think I ever got high, to be honest I don't know personally what that feeling is. All I felt was dry mouth and light headed/migraine for a few hours after. So I just said **** it and stopped trying.

The reason I am passionate about it is because I resent the lies I've been told growing up about it. The reasons and history for actually banning it were not because of it's effects. It was bull**** propaganda to protect certain industries and for racists to declare it was a terrible drug. There are people willing to lobby for increased funding of the drug war to keep people in prison, ruining their lives, because it gives themselves job security and benefits.

And, I'm not sure how truthful the medical benefits are about it, but if it makes a cancer patient feel better and willing to eat after chemo, its a good enough reason in and of itself. I don't see why we should force that person to use prescriptions that can be more dangerous than the plant or force them to buy some over priced THC pill because cannabis is illegal and likely cause more unnecessary suffering.

It seems incredibly hypocritical that the last 3 presidents we've had, admitted to using, and had they been caught, could have had their lives ruined and never even become president. They were willing (and Obama still is willing) to prosecute people for it. Not to mention something like 1/3 IIRC of Americans admit to at least trying it. So no, I have no personal gain from legalizing it short of requiring it for relief from some debilitating or illness.

And to be perfectly honest, I don't like the idea of not being in control, I've gotten drunk one time (this year actually and I'm 22). But you think that people only support an issue because they themselves are directly affected by it. I am not, nor do I know anyone in jail over cannabis. It is possible to have empathy for others if you have an adequate understanding of it which I feel that I do.
I said most, not all, just so we are clear.

To be honest I dont have an issue with anything you posted. Though, if communities want cannibis banned along with alcohol and anything else I fully support them.

I made mention in the past and I think it ought to be brought up again, I think the law should be taken out of the equation and let drugs be handled by community and culture.

That being said, of all issues this is right on the backburner. The last thing this country needs is another binary issue to fight over.
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:25 PM #277
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I want all of the binary issues at once. Gang bang style.
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:35 PM #278
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The problem I have is that they are all symptoms themselves. We devote so much energy to arguing whether tylenol is better than Beyer for headaches that we ignore the fact that we wouldn't have headaches if we weren't drinking so goddamned much at night.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:03 PM #279
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
The problem I have is that they are all symptoms themselves. We devote so much energy to arguing whether tylenol is better than Beyer for headaches that we ignore the fact that we wouldn't have headaches if we weren't drinking so goddamned much at night.
Democracy's a mother****er like that. A system which reduces a lot of **** to the lowest common denominator.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:22 PM #280
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This IS what democracy looks like...
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:05 PM #281
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
I said most, not all, just so we are clear.

To be honest I dont have an issue with anything you posted. Though, if communities want cannibis banned along with alcohol and anything else I fully support them.

I made mention in the past and I think it ought to be brought up again, I think the law should be taken out of the equation and let drugs be handled by community and culture.

That being said, of all issues this is right on the backburner. The last thing this country needs is another binary issue to fight over.
I know you said exceptions don't make the rule, I agree with you, yes probably many of the most outspoken advocates for legalization likely use regularly. I disagree that the problem is insignificant. The amount of wasteful spending used on the Federal War On Drugs is incredible when you include the unnecessary money wasted on incarceration, the loss of productivity that could be generated by people growing and creating products out of hemp/cannabis, plus the inmates of non-violent offenses who could be contributing wealth/labor rather than costing everyone more money by sitting in jail. The wasted time of people incarcerated is not measurable. This whole federal process has a huge ripple effect on so many things. Plus the crime and loss of life that could be avoided.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:16 PM #282
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Democracy's a mother****er like that. A system which reduces a lot of **** to the lowest common denominator.
I've been sayin' it for a while man.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:19 PM #283
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I know you said exceptions don't make the rule, I agree with you, yes probably many of the most outspoken advocates for legalization likely use regularly. I disagree that the problem is insignificant. The amount of wasteful spending used on the Federal War On Drugs is incredible when you include the unnecessary money wasted on incarceration, the loss of productivity that could be generated by people growing and creating products out of hemp/cannabis, plus the inmates of non-violent offenses who could be contributing wealth/labor rather than costing everyone more money by sitting in jail. The wasted time of people incarcerated is not measurable. This whole federal process has a huge ripple effect on so many things. Plus the crime and loss of life that could be avoided.
Insignificant right now. The problem should be fixed, but not until we tackle the major issues.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:31 AM #284
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http://news.yahoo.com/allies-may-arm...131530581.html

The obama administration keeps on derpin
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:35 AM #285
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Insignificant right now. The problem should be fixed, but not until we tackle the major issues.
What's a major issue in your opinion?
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Election fraud is perfectly acceptable when it intends to keep Ron Paul out of the White House."
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:44 AM #286
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What's a major issue in your opinion?
That's a trick question, there are no major issues because obama already solved all of them. That also explains why the world has been in perfect condition since obama took office.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:26 AM #287
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That's a trick question, there are no major issues because obama already solved all of them. That also explains why the world has been in perfect condition since obama took office.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:25 AM #288
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Insignificant right now. The problem should be fixed, but not until we tackle the major issues.
Pretty hard to call it insignificant by any criteria, whether it is social injustice, taxpayer dollars wasted, revenue that could be earned, harm to the economy in terms of hours wasted in jail or jobs denied due to criminal record, etc.

If you are only looking at it as some people want to get high and can't, then it appears insignificant. There is a lot more to it than that and to call it an insignificant issue is deceitful.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:32 AM #289
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What's a major issue in your opinion?
First and foremost, we need to address the failure of democracy and move towards either a constitutional republic as per our origins or drop it all together. The latter being the most unlikely. Traditionalism and Progressivism can no longer coexist. We need to swing the pendulum in a direction. Centrism has failed(it doesn't really exist). Compromise always leads the the lowest common denominator.

Here's what I would do: Set up a few states to be progressive havens and traditional havens. Let both views have unhindered control of their respective state. From there we watch and see what works and what doesn't. No more of this toe the line bull****.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:35 AM #290
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Pretty hard to call it insignificant by any criteria, whether it is social injustice, taxpayer dollars wasted, revenue that could be earned, harm to the economy in terms of hours wasted in jail or jobs denied due to criminal record, etc.

If you are only looking at it as some people want to get high and can't, then it appears insignificant. There is a lot more to it than that and to call it an insignificant issue is deceitful.
Second rate issue that would more than likely be solved if this country decided to start acting like a nation and not a conglomerate of individuals pursuing their own self interest. I left out the word rational because it doesn't apply to reality. Sounds good on paper.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:37 AM #291
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Here's what I would do: Set up a few states to be progressive havens and traditional havens. Let both views have unhindered control of their respective state. From there we watch and see what works and what doesn't. No more of this toe the line bull****.
The problem with that is that progressives want a stronger Federal Government, and will argue that it will only work if every state exists under the same (progressive) rule. This is why they so staunchly oppose federalism. They fail to see that belief as a microcosm of the world at large - after all the USA is simply another 'state' in the world.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:54 AM #292
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The problem with that is that progressives want a stronger Federal Government, and will argue that it will only work if every state exists under the same (progressive) rule. This is why they so staunchly oppose federalism. They fail to see that belief as a microcosm of the world at large - after all the USA is simply another 'state' in the world.
Progressives have the burden proof in this case. They need to make sacrifices to achieve that requirement. Two states of relatively equal industrial capacity should do.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:56 AM #293
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Progressives have the burden proof in this case. They need to make sacrifices to achieve that requirement. Two states of relatively equal industrial capacity should do.
In a perfect world yeah, but in reality failed states such as California are somehow held up as an example by them, and the argument "it would work if everybody was doing the same thing we're doing here/there" seems to get more traction than I'd expect in the political arena.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:02 AM #294
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In a perfect world yeah, but in reality failed states such as California are somehow held up as an example by them, and the argument "it would work if everybody was doing the same thing we're doing here/there" seems to get more traction than I'd expect in the political arena.
California has a silent wing of conservatives. Look at the outcome of prop 8. The town I live in is mostly conservatives, unless you are under 30. The school systems and a significant portion of local government however are progressive. I don't think California is the best example, right now, for pure progressivism
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