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View Poll Results: As a whole, are unions needed?
Yes 32 40.00%
No 48 60.00%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-19-2012, 11:24 PM #295
benji25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
No good points were raised.
1. Unions lead to inflated wages by threatening the supply chain of companies in order to obtain artificially higher wages.

Quote:
The power of labor unions rests in their two main tools of influence: restricting labor supply and increasing labor demand. Some economists compare them to cartels. Through collective bargaining, unions negotiate the wages that employers will pay. Unions ask for a higher wage than the equilibrium wage (found at the intersect of the labor supply and labor demand curves), but this can lower the hours demanded by employers. Since a higher wage rate equates to less work per dollar, unions often face problems when negotiating higher wages and instead will often focus on increasing the demand for labor.

Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/articles...#ixzz2FZCAUVmd
2. Unions spend a lot of their money on things other than fighting for the betterment of their members.
Quote:
In fact, less than a quarter (24.1 percent) of expenditures by Michigan’s 25 largest private sector (or public/private hybrid) union locals go toward actually representing workers, according to those unions’ latest LM-2 filings
http://kcerds.dol-esa.gov/query/getOrgQry.do

Those are my two main points. Also, I am still waiting for the answer to your "personal experience".
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:22 AM #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benji25 View Post
[BS redacted]
You addressed me with specific points which have been debunked and rejected. You have tried several times to backtrack those points, and now you backtrack as if that discussion never happened at all.

We're done here.
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:42 AM #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
You addressed me with specific points which have been debunked and rejected. You have tried several times to backtrack those points, and now you backtrack as if that discussion never happened at all.

We're done here.
Show me where you debunked these. The only thing you ever even "debunked" was your misunderstanding of my comment about labor contracts.

Also I forgot my third point:

3. Companies [Revised to: For profit companies] exist solely to make a profit.

I agree, you have rejected these simply by not considering them to be true and blindly believing yourself. You have not, however, debunked any of them.

You have also not answered the "personal experience" hypocrisy. But if you need to pretend you won to sleep at night that is fine by me, hun.
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:54 AM #298
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a few things about unions one needs to know before passing opinion. You cannot combine unions as a one, a large uaw car plant with a work force of 3,000 to 5,000 is bargined much differnt than a senior home where the nurses and staff are uaw represented. When a auto worker retires as with teachers the company or state pays the pension and health covrage as a contract , but most local unions are much diffrent than what the average public knows. A senior home where the staff is coverd by the uaw, say 50 to 100 workers, pensions, health, and every benifit that comes with that contract are self paid buy the workers in a hourly amount. All workers are self funded and does not cost the employer any money. Building trade unions really get the shaft when it comes to public conseption compared to how it really is. Building trade work is 90% bid work, so that crane operator making $60.00 bucks a hour is at that job doing his job because his boss got the low bid, now that other crane company right down the road did not get the job and there operator makes 18.00 per hour, all that means is the owner of the union company was not as greedy as the non-union company. I'm in west mi. and have worked on both sides. My non-union wage tops out at 18.00, less if i want insurence or to pay into a 401. My union wage is 29.09 with my benifits being on top of that, about 38.00 total package. My old owner at the non-union company bids the same work as the owner of the union shop. The owner of the open shop has a huge second home, a 42' boat, and every toy you can think of. The owner of the closed shop has a small cottage up north, a 28' boat and every other toy you can think of. I made 29.09 my non-union counter part makes 18.00, see where im going with this
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Old 12-25-2012, 09:00 AM #299
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I see your anecdotal examples used to back up what was otherwise a great explanation. Leave them out next time, and remember no two companies act the same.
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