I would argue that there are several cases were unions have spun out of control (i.e. Teachers). However on the whole I'd still say they do more good than bad.
Regular refs suck about as much dick as these replacement refs. As far as the teachers go, I'd give their union a little more respect if we weren't ranked amongst such ****ty countries as far as our standardized tests go. If we were a "smarter" nation as far as the public schools go, then sure, give the public school teachers more of what they want. Unions started out as such a great concept but have been taken over by bureaucrats, thieves, and crooks.
Obviously they're somewhat needed. They didn't pop up outta nowhere for no reason. They have started spinning out of control. Some markets need it much more than others.
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Absolutely needed, problem is the public has been convinced they are not. It's not a coincidence that, upon said convincing, the economy almost went belly-up.
Unions are a free-market solution to worker exploitation. Anyone who is a believer in markets, and ESPECIALLY those that distrust government solutions, should support unions wholeheartedly as a check on corporate power.
Unions are very beneficial, and still necessary, but really foster the 'us vs. them' mentality within the workplace. I am part of a union at my job and see it do more good than harm.
However, certain aspects of unions do not sit well with me. The seniority system is the union gold standard for job promotion- which is bull****. I see this system protect the laziest of my co-workers and cost my employer untold sums in overtime to pick up their slack. There should always be a performance expectation and seniority should be second. Especially with teachers.
Public unions by definition are corrupt, they hire people who give them benefits that are better than the public sector, and then they hire more people in government to keep doing this until the taxpayer gets squeezed to the point they complain.
Right now in Chicago, the public school teachers union who actually make on average $76,000 per year BEFORE benefits and just TURNED DOWN a 16% pay raise... Don't worry, it is still $30,000 MORE than the average worker in their state, and they only work 9 months of the year, and have TONS of paid vacation and holidays...
In a state that is bankrupt, and should be CUTTING benefits, not adding to them.
But, hey, at least 20% of the students in those schools are doing average...
79% of the 8th graders CAN'T READ, and 80% of their students are below average at math for their grade... CLEARLY MORE money is the answer... or something.
These public unions elected Rham and Obama, so they expect their PAYBACK, and they don't care about it being an election year, they are typical liberals, who don't want to have their job performance tied to their pay, just like Obama...
Fire them all. Because anything less does nothing "for the children" but allow failure to continue.
I don't think I've seen a more direct example of "ignorance begets ignorance".
Where is the flaw in my post? Do we or do we not fund education? On average, the taxpayers spend around 10k/yr per child to go to pubic school. Your solution is to throw more money at the problem instead of actually fixing the problem? Sounds like a Democrap to me.
edit - Let's keep this thread on topic. If you want to talk about the failing educational system, make a thread on it.
Last edited by Animal_Mother : 09-11-2012 at 07:09 AM.
Nurses' union helps keep my mom's salary and her job so I'm a proponent of them. Everyone on their representative board or whatever for each individual hospital is a volunteer which is pretty interesting. That is the board that participates in negotiations with the city as far as cuts and layoffs go.
Absolutely needed, problem is the public has been convinced they are not. It's not a coincidence that, upon said convincing, the economy almost went belly-up.
Unions are a free-market solution to worker exploitation. Anyone who is a believer in markets, and ESPECIALLY those that distrust government solutions, should support unions wholeheartedly as a check on corporate power.
And what happens when the union gets too powerful? The same scenario as when the employer is a schmuck, except the company is getting shafted by the employees.
If you REALLY want a free-market solution, the non-union worker should be able to work next to the union worker WITHOUT having to pay to do so. Until then, it is just coercion from ANOTHER source.
Unions are an archaic idea whos time has past. Yes they were good things back in the 20's even up to the 60's. However now we have solid protections in place, OSHA, OSHPOD, and others both federal and state level.
Unions now, are for the weak minded, like religion they are a refuge for people who have no ability to think for themselves.
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"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Thomas Jefferson
A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.
Obviously they're somewhat needed. They didn't pop up outta nowhere for no reason. They have started spinning out of control. Some markets need it much more than others.
This. I voted no but in reality som form of unions can still be useful. I just don't think that they should have government help securing their power as they have now.
