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Old 09-10-2012, 11:27 PM #22
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Originally Posted by F1VENOM View Post

Do you think reducing teacher pay is going to increase the quality of teaching professionals and increase student test scores?
I think we should get rid of teacher unions. Then fire the teachers who have had a majority of students have poor grades and ACT scores for multiple years. Then slowly increase their pay wage to attract the smarter college students. Even at my university it's known if you can't make it in a worthwhile and more difficult degree you switch to become a teacher. Which is sad.
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:31 PM #23
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Originally Posted by tsbalr120 View Post
I think we should get rid of teacher unions. Then fire the teachers who have had a majority of students have poor grades and ACT scores for multiple years. Then slowly increase their pay wage to attract the smarter college students. Even at my university it's known if you can't make it in a worthwhile and more difficult degree you switch to become a teacher. Which is sad.
The only reason that's an option is because they don't pay well enough to attract the good students from industry/academia. I'd love to teach if I could fetch a decent wage but the benefits don't even offset the low pay anymore.
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:40 PM #24
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Originally Posted by F1VENOM View Post
Can you back that statistic up? I agree that admins are grossly overpaid.
http://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2010

If you made 120k in 2010, that put you in the top 4% of wage earners.

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Do you think reducing teacher pay is going to increase the quality of teaching professionals and increase student test scores?
Actually, I think busting the teachers' unions and drastically overhauling our public education system (privatization, vouchers, and principals with more power and accountability) will increase the quality of teaching professionals and increase student test scores.

Money isn't the issue. If it was, American students would be the best in the world. That clearly isn't the case. The real issue has to do with the insane amount of regulations that guard what a unionized teacher and administrator can and can't do.

Look up the employee turnover statistics for any public school system. They're drastically lower than the churn rate for the private sector. Because it's impossible to fire them and the benefits are too good (after 20+ years of employment) for public employees to quit.

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Merit-based teacher compensation in general is to be opposed. There is no objective means of measuring teacher merit.
But there are objective means of measuring student merit. It's called standardized test scores. Teachers obviously have an affect on student performance.

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These salaries aren't appalling in the least. It's sad that people have forgotten what middle-class professional salaries look like.
They are when they're above what the vast majority of Americans make. The fact that some public school systems have to pay upwards of half a million dollars to fire teachers who sexually harass their students is appalling. The fact that per pupil spending since 1970 has more than doubled in real terms while test scores have stagnated is appalling.

Public employees are vastly overcompensated compared to their counterparts in the private sector. And public education has the biggest payroll. It's time we either reform the whole system (with vouchers, union busting, and charter schools with increased autonomy) or let it go to rot. I'm fine with either.
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:41 PM #25
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Originally Posted by Rapier7 View Post
Chicago teachers get paid, on average, over 74k per year. Over half the CPS operational budget is dedicated to salaries and benefits for CPS employees and the per pupil spending is just over 13k, which makes it the most expensive public school system in the country (after New York and DC).

Source: Chicago Public Schools

They're being offered a guaranteed raise of 16% over 4 years and they rejected it because they're concerned about teacher accountability.

That is an act of true cowardice. I hope the Chicago Teachers Union gets everything that's coming to them. This is why government employees shouldn't be allowed to collectively bargain. They enrich themselves and select politicians at the expense of the public.
Is that CHICAGO teachers? or suburban chicago teachers? Either way, when I lived in Arizona for a couple of years the teachers only made around 35-40 thousand a year. Illinois teachers have it good.
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:44 PM #26
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Is that CHICAGO teachers? or suburban chicago teachers? Either way, when I lived in Arizona for a couple of years the teachers only made around 35-40 thousand a year. Illinois teachers have it good.
Jesus christ. It's not hard to look up the source that I referenced and realize that Chicago Public Schools means Chicago, as in the city.
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:45 PM #27
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Jesus christ. It's not hard to look up the source that I referenced and realize that Chicago Public Schools means Chicago, as in the city.
Relax... And chicago teachers making that much money is surprising to me...
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:58 PM #28
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Let me preface this post by stating that I belong to a union. Unions are completely bat**** crazy and out of control. They need to be checked back into line and revised. There are a lot of worthless unions out there demanding too much for too little.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:14 AM #29
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Pay is according to standard of living. I would love to see someone raise a family in chicago on 30-40k a year. Hell if you rent, it might cost you 30k a year just for rent.

But they are out of control seeing as how the CPS is in the hole for hundreds of millions of dollars this year, and said to be 1 billion in the hole for next year. Where do these union's think the money will come from?
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:39 AM #30
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Fair or not, if Chicago teachers' pay was merit-based, a lot of them wouldn't be paid at all.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us-d...icient-reading

Also, say what you want to about the charter schools, but at least they're still open.
http://www.wbez.org/news/charter-sch...-strike-102320
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:39 AM #31
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The whole idea of a "public" union (meaning a union within government). Is a classic case of nepotism. The public unions are paid by the government, and then the union leaders use their political power to hire more government people that will in turn give more money to the public union...

It is corrupt at all levels. Look at how much money the union used to hire Obama... They expected a payback, and this strike is evidence that they didn't get what they "deserved".



My grandpa was the president of the local UAW. After he ran it for a year, he was so anti-union it was crazy... He said unions are thugs, and criminals, nothing more, with a goal of doing the least amount of work possible, at the highest pay possible...
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:14 AM #32
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Every last teacher that walks out on this so called "strike" should be fired on the spot, and bring in non-union teachers.

This is not about money, its about power, and you know who pays...the students/kids/parents/society as a whole. Union greed FTL
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:26 AM #33
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Overbear, where and when are we supposed to find 20,000 qualified teachers who are ready, willing, and able to relocate their lives to Chicago, work at some of the most desperate and dangerous schools in the nation, and figure out a year's curriculum one day into the school year?

Besides that, any politician who made that move would be instantly voted out in a recall election.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:33 AM #34
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Originally Posted by F1VENOM View Post
The only reason that's an option is because they don't pay well enough to attract the good students from industry/academia. I'd love to teach if I could fetch a decent wage but the benefits don't even offset the low pay anymore.
I agree. These people are teaching the next generation. I want the best students from college filling these spots and I wouldn't be against paying a high enough wage to get them. But first we have to get rid of the terrible and unqualified ones. And the teacher unions are protecting them which is what needs to change.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:48 AM #35
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Yeah, that'd turn out swell. Under-qualified teachers are already a huge problem, let's make it worse.
Rahm should set up a website asking for out of work teachers from around the country that would like to relocate to chicago and help the children there and offer them the same deal the CTU turned down. I bet it would be a hit.

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Old 09-11-2012, 01:04 PM #36
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Don't forget that the average salary doesn't tell the whole story. There's a huge difference between starting salary and salary after 20 years. The more experienced teachers are paid over 100K per year and have a very generous pension to look forward to (I believe it's 80% of their average salary for the last 5 years). So, there are plent of teachers who can retire at a relatively early age on a very nice salary. A far sight better than many in the private sector. They have nothing to complain about.
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Old 09-11-2012, 01:21 PM #37
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Can you back that statistic up? I agree that admins are grossly overpaid.

fivenom stop being so freakin stupid...i know your smarter than this. Just because you want to back the unions doesn't mean they're doing the right thing.


Do the freakin research yourself it's as easy as going to glass door.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/el...RCH_KO0,25.htm
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Old 09-11-2012, 01:53 PM #38
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The auto bailouts were just transferring wealth from the car companies owners TO the unions who now control the companies...

The bond holders, and vendors got NOTHING. Typical Obama, take from one group and give to another.

"rewarding friends while penalizing enemies"...

The teachers union wants theirs... GIVE IT to them obama.

Who cares if they are utter failures, and the kids are better off on the streets than in the classroom, you gotta pay back your friends who elected you.

"for the children" of course...
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:35 PM #39
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Originally Posted by Murph1329 View Post
fivenom stop being so freakin stupid...i know your smarter than this. Just because you want to back the unions doesn't mean they're doing the right thing.


Do the freakin research yourself it's as easy as going to glass door.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/el...RCH_KO0,25.htm
You're right. **** fivenom and his bull**** of asking for proof of claims. How dare he ask someone to show the link from which their information came? Who does he think he is? He should stop being so biased when asking for proof. He should be like us unbiased ones who don't need proof to know we are right. Oh and even though the burden of proof falls on the one who makes the claim, **** him for not looking it up himself!
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:45 PM #40
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What if he was homeschooled?
From homescholed children I've met in my town I'd say he would have problematic socializing skills and had parents that were religious zelots.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:48 PM #41
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You're right. **** fivenom and his bull**** of asking for proof of claims. How dare he ask someone to show the link from which their information came? Who does he think he is? He should stop being so biased when asking for proof. He should be like us unbiased ones who don't need proof to know we are right. Oh and even though the burden of proof falls on the one who makes the claim, **** him for not looking it up himself!

doing a search on glass door or any other salary jobsite is oh so hard

the fact that he needed proof that the average salary wasn't over 100k for a school teacher just shows me his stupidity
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:01 PM #42
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You're right. **** fivenom and his bull**** of asking for proof of claims. How dare he ask someone to show the link from which their information came? Who does he think he is? He should stop being so biased when asking for proof. He should be like us unbiased ones who don't need proof to know we are right. Oh and even though the burden of proof falls on the one who makes the claim, **** him for not looking it up himself!
Makes him look like a lazy party-line toting liberal who doesn't care to understand all the facts when he continually asks for sources on things that are easily verifiable. I don't blame murph for calling him out on it.
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