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Old 09-17-2012, 05:10 PM #148
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Originally Posted by marcozombie View Post
contraception is not responsibiltiy?
if you need government supplied contraception to be responsible then you're not responsible


how about we put a governor on all cars for 60 mph so everyone is responsible while driving....that logic doesn't make you as a person more responsible
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:17 PM #149
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Being an engaged spokesperson in a national political campaign isn't anything to sneeze at. That should say "Spoke at the DNC" ... national stage > podunk town.
In the years to come, I wouldn't be surprised if Ms Fluke makes quite a bit of impact on the national level.
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:18 PM #150
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Contraception in an insurance plan is not responsible? Contraception of ANY kind is not responsible? You guys would be fine with government getting rid of abortion altoghether, yet against the government providing any kind of contraception and a social saftey net for the unaborted children that arent afforded. Don't like abortions? What to reduce them? Here you go:
1) Don't have one.
2) Get religious freaks to lay off contraception.

easy.
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:55 PM #151
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Nope, we'd rather whine about dem negros having all those babies and stealing our monies.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:05 PM #152
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Originally Posted by marcozombie View Post
contraception is not responsibiltiy?
Not when you are asking someone to pay for it.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:09 PM #153
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Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
Being an engaged spokesperson in a national political campaign isn't anything to sneeze at. That should say "Spoke at the DNC" ... national stage > podunk town.
In the years to come, I wouldn't be surprised if Ms Fluke makes quite a bit of impact on the national level.
Look, I know you're crazy, but you can't possibly in your right mind actually believe that forcing tax payers to pay for contraception is a good idea.

Pay for your own ****ing contraception. Sandra Fluke is a dumb *****.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:26 PM #154
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In a perfect world people would only have sex responsibly, and if they couldn't afford contraception they wouldn't have sex. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world. Of course its easy to say well you did the dance, own up to it. But a child is not like a hangover after a night of partying. First off you can't compare a child to a consequence. Second a child requires 18 years of attention and a lifetime of some sort of attention, as well as a decent amount of money. Quite the investment compared to birth control. I would rather pay for that vs. paying for welfare for who knows how long.

Either way though I would like tougher requirements for welfare. It's supposed to be for those who really need it and can't afford necessities without it. Not for those who prioritize badly. I remember working with a woman on foodstamps and she showed up with the top of the line smartphone at the time. I don't think incidents like that get reported as welfare abuse but that is to me.
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:00 PM #155
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Paying for contraception is WAY cheaper than supporting a child.

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In a perfect world people would only have sex responsibly, and if they couldn't afford contraception they wouldn't have sex. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world. Of course its easy to say well you did the dance, own up to it. But a child is not like a hangover after a night of partying. First off you can't compare a child to a consequence. Second a child requires 18 years of attention and a lifetime of some sort of attention, as well as a decent amount of money. Quite the investment compared to birth control. I would rather pay for that vs. paying for welfare for who knows how long.
Be a careful of uninformed judgments. A phone is a necessity, a smartphone can replace a computer if one can't afford a computer. And who knows how long she will use that phone, or what kind of deal she got to get it.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:27 AM #156
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Not when you are asking someone to pay for it.
Conservatives want none of it though. They can't be reasond with when it comes to this issue: Have someone else pay for contraception? "No, take personal responsibility." Have my isurance pay for it? "No, that might be against my religion, even though I don't have to use it." Pay for it myself? " No, thats a 'sin' against god, you shouldn't use it period."
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:08 PM #157
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Originally Posted by marcozombie View Post
Conservatives want none of it though. They can't be reasond with when it comes to this issue: Have someone else pay for contraception? "No, take personal responsibility." Have my isurance pay for it? "No, that might be against my religion, even though I don't have to use it." Pay for it myself? " No, thats a 'sin' against god, you shouldn't use it period."
You are conflated varying viewpoints as if they are consistent among all conservatives. Religious conservatives have an obvious moral opposition to it, while most non religious merely have a problem with tax payer funded contraception. It isn't too much of a stretch to conceive that if you cannot afford the an activity, you shouldnt partake in it. Self control, you reap what you sow. Im personally not a fan of anyone with poor impulse control and I think they deserve everything that comes with that.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:36 PM #158
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You are conflated varying viewpoints as if they are consistent among all conservatives. Religious conservatives have an obvious moral opposition to it, while most non religious merely have a problem with tax payer funded contraception. It isn't too much of a stretch to conceive that if you cannot afford the an activity, you shouldnt partake in it. Self control, you reap what you sow. Im personally not a fan of anyone with poor impulse control and I think they deserve everything that comes with that.
I would think non-religious conservatives would prefer the lower cost of contraception rather than

A. Having a way more expensive saftey net for all those children born that now have to be cared for.

B. Having "large government" become even larger in order to make reproductive decisions for the individual.

The majority of conservatives I come into contact on a daily basis are exatctly the ones I offered in my previous post and hold those confusing veiws, so I'm writing from those experiences.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:44 PM #159
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Originally Posted by marcozombie View Post
I would think non-religious conservatives would prefer the lower cost of contraception rather than

A. Having a way more expensive saftey net for all those children born that now have to be cared for.

B. Having "large government" become even larger in order to make reproductive decisions for the individual.

The majority of conservatives I come into contact on a daily basis are exatctly the ones I offered in my previous post and hold those confusing veiws, so I'm writing from those experiences.
People don't like anecdotal evidence, unless it is in their favor.

I think most conservatives utterly reject both A and B. Otherwise I would call them unprincipled.

Remember, most conservatives idealize "Mayberry" for the American way of life. This is a cultural thing, not a government matter. Of course, neo cons love using government to replace culture. Which makes them no better than other groups who do the same.
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:37 PM #160
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the whole pay for my birth control is a pretty stupid argument

you can go into any health department and get free condoms, it's been this way for decades

Just because something is avaliable doesn't mean people will use it. I'm amazed that you all have confidence in person that would get pregnant and have an abortion would in turn be responsible enough to take the pill on time, every month, 365 days out of the year...bull ****.

having babies born into bad families or financial situations is horrible...killing unborn babies is just as bad

Another stance that's just as radical as killing babies during partial birth abortions would be to just sterilize a good portion of our society. At least this way there wouldn't be any blood on anyone's hands.
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:51 PM #161
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You are conflated varying viewpoints as if they are consistent among all conservatives. Religious conservatives have an obvious moral opposition to it, while most non religious merely have a problem with tax payer funded contraception. It isn't too much of a stretch to conceive that if you cannot afford the an activity, you shouldnt partake in it. Self control, you reap what you sow. Im personally not a fan of anyone with poor impulse control and I think they deserve everything that comes with that.
I understand your logic, but in this case "deserving what comes with that" is a child. Do you really think a child should be treated like a consequence?
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:02 PM #162
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Obama said he doesn't want his daughters "punished with a baby"...

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Old 09-18-2012, 03:09 PM #163
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I understand your logic, but in this case "deserving what comes with that" is a child. Do you really think a child should be treated like a consequence?
Yes because your inability to care for the child is a consequence of your actions. I understand this is another human being. Yet it is the parents ultimate responsibility. Not only for the immediate well being of the child but for society as a whole. You do not reward destructive behavior. The ends justify the means in this case. Of course it is all meaningless without a culture that provides a state of being to strive for. All we have are varying sets of negatives to prevent us from stepping on each others toes and paradoxically preventing us from accomplishing more.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:33 PM #164
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I think most conservatives utterly reject both A and B. Otherwise I would call them unprincipled.
No, B is pretty much what they have been trying to do since abortion became a private, protected, medical procedure. Proposed anti-abortion legislation in the last couple of years has taken off. So yes, most conservatives have no problem at all with government releaving you of your personal responsibility to not procreate if you choose not to.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:38 PM #165
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Got in himmel. Do you know how cheap the pill is for women to purchase? Compare that to the costs of unwanted children. Organized religion is predominatly about control. You controll one of human beings primary urges you controll the population population. If there is no conception you are not killing anything. Where is the harm in that other than loss of controll for your religions hierarchy.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:38 PM #166
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Just because something is avaliable doesn't mean people will use it.
You should tell that to conservatives that don't ANY kind of birth control insurance plans. Don't like it, don't use it is what I always say.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:40 PM #167
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having babies born into bad families or financial situations is horrible...killing unborn babies is just as bad.
So then you agree with social saftey net yes? TANIF, CHIP... Glad to have you on board!
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:41 PM #168
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Got in himmel. Do you know how cheap the pill is for women to purchase? Compare that to the costs of unwanted children. Organized religion is predominatly about control. You controll one of human beings primary urges you controll the population population. If there is no conception you are not killing anything. Where is the harm in that other than loss of controll for your religions hierarchy.
That's BS. Man may have used religion to his advantage in the past but you have a choice in Christianity to accept Christ as your savior or not. It's not forced upon you. That goes against what Christ taught.
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