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Old 08-16-2012, 12:33 AM #1
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Hypersonic plane crash



Was supposed to crash anyway after test was done. Not going to lie, **** looks super cool, but this smells of cronyism with Boeing and defense contractors. This seems like an incredibly unnecessary waste of money, especially in these tough economic times.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:12 AM #2
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Stepping stone technology. The X-51A is a program that is supposed to establish that these flights can be done. From there, it can be developed into either a very fast cruise missle, or super-sized into something that can carry people. Experimental technology and exploration aren't wastes of anything.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:23 AM #3
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Scramjets are very badass and worth looking up.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:28 AM #4
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Originally Posted by Frank101 View Post
This seems like an incredibly unnecessary waste of money, especially in these tough economic times.
These projects are years (if not decades) in the making, oftentimes with budgets appropriated years before an actual event takes place.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:52 AM #5
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Originally Posted by StellarKnight View Post
These projects are years (if not decades) in the making, oftentimes with budgets appropriated years before an actual event takes place.
Clearly you don't get it.

WE HAVE TO CUT ALL RESEARCH FUNDING TO BALANCE THE BUDGET. IT'S THE RESEARCH THAT'S KILLING US.

Not that I'm a huge fan of the amounts of money we send to the DoD... the DoE or NSF could distribute research funds just as well.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:53 AM #6
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Clearly you don't get it.

WE HAVE TO CUT ALL RESEARCH FUNDING TO BALANCE THE BUDGET. IT'S THE RESEARCH THAT'S KILLING US.

Not that I'm a huge fan of the amounts of money we send to the DoD... the DoE or NSF could distribute research funds just as well.
That's because what you do doesn't allow you to jump on the DARPA gravy train.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:02 AM #7
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WE HAVE TO CUT ALL RESEARCH FUNDING TO BALANCE THE BUDGET. IT'S THE RESEARCH THAT'S KILLING US.
Don't forget NPR.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:20 AM #8
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Unfortunately, when it comes to public vs. private ventures, private funds yield better results. When something like this happens to private ventures, its only those investors who suffer a loss, when it happens in a government department, taxpayers eat the cost and there will likely be more spending put into the project. I'm not against funding science and R&D, just the means by which government raises capital to do so. It's morally wrong to confiscate funds to finance projects that may or may not have any utility for the average person.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:22 AM #9
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This stuff doesn't happen in a company looking to make money.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:33 AM #10
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This stuff doesn't happen in a company looking to make money.
Well, it certainly does in the pharmaceutical business. And we all know the price of pharmaceuticels.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:34 AM #11
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Well, it certainly does in the pharmaceutical business. And we all know the price of pharmaceuticels.
That's because they make billions upon billions for decades with one discovery, same thing happens in the oil industry. The ROI is huge in comparison.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:41 AM #12
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Well, it certainly does in the pharmaceutical business.
In the last 20 years, what revolutionary product has come out of the pharmaceutical industry that has had a drastic impact on the practice of modern medicine?

Hell, we don't even need to demonstrate tangible impact. Name a product that has the potential to change the landscape of modern medicine.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:47 AM #13
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Unfortunately, when it comes to public vs. private ventures, private funds yield better results. When something like this happens to private ventures, its only those investors who suffer a loss, when it happens in a government department, taxpayers eat the cost and there will likely be more spending put into the project. I'm not against funding science and R&D, just the means by which government raises capital to do so. It's morally wrong to confiscate funds to finance projects that may or may not have any utility for the average person.
You are missing the most important aspect of this. Private investors are not willing and do not have the financial endurance to risk money on a long term project (10+ Years) that may not yield a profit. NASA and the DoD can invest money into such projects, learn something, and then make the information available to others. The utility to the average person will not be evident for a significant period of time, but these cutting-edge research projects provide us the the basic information necessary to make commercially viable and useful spin-off tech.

For example, private space travel is great, but they are only going to operate in LEO where there is money to be made. No private company is going to spend the money to go to the moon or Mars, which is the type of project where signifigant technological strides can be made. NASA can dump the funds into the required R&D and get us there, with all of the new tech and knowledge available for use by the general public.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:48 AM #14
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Mother****ing microwaves came from government spending. Best millions spent, ever.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:48 AM #15
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Originally Posted by StellarKnight View Post
In the last 20 years, what revolutionary product has come out of the pharmaceutical industry that has had a drastic impact on the practice of modern medicine?

Hell, we don't even need to demonstrate tangible impact. Name a product that has the potential to change the landscape of modern medicine.
You're saying you don't think that the copywright laws stimulate innovation?

This is a bit of a grey area for me, I can understand the arguments from both sides - I'd appreciate it if you could expound on that.
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:50 PM #16
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Originally Posted by Tafari Makonnen View Post
You are missing the most important aspect of this. Private investors are not willing and do not have the financial endurance to risk money on a long term project (10+ Years) that may not yield a profit. NASA and the DoD can invest money into such projects, learn something, and then make the information available to others. The utility to the average person will not be evident for a significant period of time, but these cutting-edge research projects provide us the the basic information necessary to make commercially viable and useful spin-off tech.

For example, private space travel is great, but they are only going to operate in LEO where there is money to be made. No private company is going to spend the money to go to the moon or Mars, which is the type of project where signifigant technological strides can be made. NASA can dump the funds into the required R&D and get us there, with all of the new tech and knowledge available for use by the general public.
Whats sad is that this has been explained to frank like 30 times on these forums.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:15 PM #17
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Mother****ing microwaves came from government spending. Best millions spent, ever.
Yes, genetically-altering cancer machines resulted from the best millions that were ever spent.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:17 PM #18
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You're saying you don't think that the copywright laws stimulate innovation?

This is a bit of a grey area for me, I can understand the arguments from both sides - I'd appreciate it if you could expound on that.
IP laws stimulate innovation, but can only do so to a certain degree.

I'm just questioning the notion that the pharmaceutical industry typically engages in R&D that could have a profound impact on the practice of modern medicine (or any other practice, for that matter). From what little I know about scramjet propulsion, it seems to be generally understood that the technology's sphere of usefulness could very well reach far beyond mere weapon applications.

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Yes, genetically-altering cancer machines resulted from the best millions that were ever spent.
A cancer machine that cooked your Hot Pocket when you got home from school. But go ahead and play that contrarian game.
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Last edited by StellarKnight : 08-16-2012 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:20 PM #19
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Yes, genetically-altering cancer machines resulted from the best millions that were ever spent.
Lol, you need a tinfoil hat.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:21 PM #20
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This stuff doesn't happen in a company looking to make money.
And money is made when a consumer voluntarily purchases whatever a good or service is. There is no voluntary interaction from the consumer to NASA to put a robot on mars. I am making a moral argument not a utility argument although the claim tends to be that everyone benefits down he road, but at the same time, who is to say the various discoveries of NASA would not have been discovered by other means?

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Well, it certainly does in the pharmaceutical business. And we all know the price of pharmaceuticels.
Because Pharma gets special privilege and protections. Regulations from FDA ban competition that is too similar as does patent laws, despite competitors creating something new. It shouldn't be a surprise that pharmaceuticals make mad money when things like alternative medicine and cannabis is outlawed, testing is restricted even if participants are willing to take risks on treatment for the purpose of study.

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You are missing the most important aspect of this. Private investors are not willing and do not have the financial endurance to risk money on a long term project (10+ Years) that may not yield a profit. NASA and the DoD can invest money into such projects, learn something, and then make the information available to others. The utility to the average person will not be evident for a significant period of time, but these cutting-edge research projects provide us the the basic information necessary to make commercially viable and useful spin-off tech.

For example, private space travel is great, but they are only going to operate in LEO where there is money to be made. No private company is going to spend the money to go to the moon or Mars, which is the type of project where signifigant technological strides can be made. NASA can dump the funds into the required R&D and get us there, with all of the new tech and knowledge available for use by the general public.
Private investors certainly do take long term risk, which is essentially what a mutual fund is, putting money into a fund of pooled resources for a long term in hopes of yielding bigger returns later on in life, mostly as a retirement account. Companies have the ability to raise funds by means of bonds, which are often sold for extended time frames. AND on top of that, there is such a thing as philanthropy, private million and billionaires do spend their own money on things they have admiration for. James Cameron spent millions of his own money for purely scientific (no profit as far as I know) in studying the deepest parts of our own oceans. You are ignoring alternative methods of funding and default to " if the state doesn't fund it no one will" fallacious argument. That is not true and never was.

I feel that we have higher priorities at the moment. These projects are insignificant when compared to the entire federal budget and I don't think we should just cut everything to 0. Maybe a spending freeze for now until we can transition back to a healthy growth rate. My premise is, if people are not willing to voluntarily risk their own money for such things, it probably should not be funded in the first place by stealing from some "for their own good."
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:27 PM #21
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Lol, you need a tinfoil hat.
Because I don't ignore the fact that microwaves alter your dna and cause cancer? Go back to school kid, you have much to learn. It might be a surprise to you but radiation is not good for you.
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