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Old 08-07-2012, 11:12 AM #1
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Question Would any Democrats be more open to the Republicans if there was no religion?

One of the major points of contention those identifying as favoring the Democratic party, is there disdain or contempt of heavy religion within the party. Political decisions being based around god, which is something that many democrats (and thus, many more agnostics and atheists) have a hard time with.

If the Republican party kept their other core values of small government, pro 2nd amendment, no corporation tax, strong military, anti entitlements, etc, would anyone find them more tolerant or possibly even a preferable party affiliation? (I know some may argue that all parties are terrible - maybe so, but a separate argument) I mostly lean right for no other reason than I hate the far left and their deceitful nature & dangerously anti American views, but I distance myself from the far right by my anti religious/pro science nature.

What say you? This question by it's nature is directed at Democrats, but I suppose Republicans could chime in if they would remain Republicans or swap parties themselves if religion disappeared, or if religion only, swapped to the left and the Democrats became the far more religious party. Add "anti abortion" to that as well, hugely religiously based.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:14 AM #2
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It would certainly help their case with moderates but I've found southern Democrats to be just as religious as their Republican counterparts.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:22 AM #3
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They are, but I think there is little doubt that the Republicans make religion a major attracting component to their party. If you look somewhere like Facebook, you will see 10x the number of "God wants us to have real maple syrup" or "God wanted that child to die, it was His will" on pages like Foxnews as opposed to CNN's newsfeed. I don't think this is a stretch at all.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:25 AM #4
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They are, but I think there is little doubt that the Republicans make religion a major attracting component to their party. If you look somewhere like Facebook, you will see 10x the number of "God wants us to have real maple syrup" or "God wanted that child to die, it was His will" on pages like Foxnews as opposed to CNN's newsfeed. I don't think this is a stretch at all.
You're right, but without religion the Republican party loses a huge amount of its identity and I'm not sure how it would look. I suppose it would be fantastic because it would allow a presidential candidate without a forced religious alignment.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:33 AM #5
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They are, but I think there is little doubt that the Republicans make religion a major attracting component to their party. If you look somewhere like Facebook, you will see 10x the number of "God wants us to have real maple syrup" or "God wanted that child to die, it was His will" on pages like Foxnews as opposed to CNN's newsfeed. I don't think this is a stretch at all.
Link to this Fox article?

Religion is a tool used by both parties. Republicans use it to take advantage of Christian voters, and Democrats like being able to blame religion for just about everything. The Democratic party would be more appealing to Republican voters if they didn't support illegal immigration and things like abortion, one side blames religion, the other side blames Godlessness.

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Old 08-07-2012, 11:51 AM #6
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This article is along these same lines, very interesting perspective.



"My 84-year-old dad joined the Democratic Party in his youth, believing it to be for the hardworking little guy. I informed Dad that that Democratic Party no longer exists. In short, spoiled-brat old hippies run the Democratic Party today.
A majority of the Democratic Party leadership comprises far-left liberals who hate America and believe that man can fix every problem. God is an imaginary being clung to by ignorant, bitter, and racist middle Americans. These Democrats believe they are intellectually superior -- and thus far better-qualified to manage our lives. This is why the Democratic Party seeks ever-expanding governmental controls over our behavior. Outrageously, death panels in ObamaCare even give government power to decide who lives and who dies."


Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/...#ixzz22sNbr9V2
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:53 AM #7
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Originally Posted by FreeEnterprise View Post
This article is along these same lines, very interesting perspective.



"My 84-year-old dad joined the Democratic Party in his youth, believing it to be for the hardworking little guy. I informed Dad that that Democratic Party no longer exists. In short, spoiled-brat old hippies run the Democratic Party today.
A majority of the Democratic Party leadership comprises far-left liberals who hate America and believe that man can fix every problem. God is an imaginary being clung to by ignorant, bitter, and racist middle Americans. These Democrats believe they are intellectually superior -- and thus far better-qualified to manage our lives. This is why the Democratic Party seeks ever-expanding governmental controls over our behavior. Outrageously, death panels in ObamaCare even give government power to decide who lives and who dies."


Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/...#ixzz22sNbr9V2
Your crazy is showing again.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:57 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuff View Post
One of the major points of contention those identifying as favoring the Democratic party, is there disdain or contempt of heavy religion within the party. Political decisions being based around god, which is something that many democrats (and thus, many more agnostics and atheists) have a hard time with.

If the Republican party kept their other core values of small government, pro 2nd amendment, no corporation tax, strong military, anti entitlements, etc, would anyone find them more tolerant or possibly even a preferable party affiliation? (I know some may argue that all parties are terrible - maybe so, but a separate argument) I mostly lean right for no other reason than I hate the far left and their deceitful nature & dangerously anti American views, but I distance myself from the far right by my anti religious/pro science nature.

What say you? This question by it's nature is directed at Democrats, but I suppose Republicans could chime in if they would remain Republicans or swap parties themselves if religion disappeared, or if religion only, swapped to the left and the Democrats became the far more religious party. Add "anti abortion" to that as well, hugely religiously based.
I hate to nitpick but how can you have both of these? The military is the most expensive part of our government... if you want small government, have a small military.

I reject both extremes as being equally nuts, like everything in life moderation is key. I would be Republican if not for their hypocrisy with "small government" and their fetish for hard-line fundamentalist Christianity.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:31 PM #9
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I have three issues with the current republican party:

They are not financially conservative enough for me. They aren't financially conservative enough to be called financially conservative. I hear smaller government and less regulations but no one seems to be willing to cut anything fiscally from their party.

I won't stand behind a party that bases their stance on issues to a religious sway. Religion is religion. It has no part, absolutely zero, in government. If you want to hold yourself or your family to a given set of morals, do it at home or in a place of worship. Law should not be shaped by the crooked and outdated cults that exist today as modern forms of organized religion.

They are far too willing to piss away any civil liberties and personal rights. If they are against regulation and a large government infringing on businesses, they should be twice as quick remove interference in our daily lives by the government.

If they could fix those three things, I would be a lifetime supporter.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:47 PM #10
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Both sides are equally religious in my mind. One is open about their religion. The other refuses to admit they have faith in a political religion.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:49 PM #11
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Both sides are equally religious in my mind. One is open about their religion. The other refuses to admit they have faith in a political religion.
Faith isn't a bad thing. Faith in governance is.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:22 PM #12
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Originally Posted by FreeEnterprise View Post
This article is along these same lines, very interesting perspective.



"My 84-year-old dad joined the Democratic Party in his youth, believing it to be for the hardworking little guy. I informed Dad that that Democratic Party no longer exists. In short, spoiled-brat old hippies run the Democratic Party today.
A majority of the Democratic Party leadership comprises far-left liberals who hate America and believe that man can fix every problem. God is an imaginary being clung to by ignorant, bitter, and racist middle Americans. These Democrats believe they are intellectually superior -- and thus far better-qualified to manage our lives. This is why the Democratic Party seeks ever-expanding governmental controls over our behavior. Outrageously, death panels in ObamaCare even give government power to decide who lives and who dies."


Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/...#ixzz22sNbr9V2
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:28 PM #13
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Faith isn't a bad thing. Faith in governance is.
Not unless we place only the most competent in such positions.

The point about faith was a jab at this perceived objectivity surrounding the core principles of the Democratic party. It requires an equal amount of faith to accept those principles as it does to accept Christ is your savior.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:31 PM #14
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I have three issues with the current republican party:

They are not financially conservative enough for me. They aren't financially conservative enough to be called financially conservative. I hear smaller government and less regulations but no one seems to be willing to cut anything fiscally from their party.

I won't stand behind a party that bases their stance on issues to a religious sway. Religion is religion. It has no part, absolutely zero, in government. If you want to hold yourself or your family to a given set of morals, do it at home or in a place of worship. Law should not be shaped by the crooked and outdated cults that exist today as modern forms of organized religion.

They are far too willing to piss away any civil liberties and personal rights. If they are against regulation and a large government infringing on businesses, they should be twice as quick remove interference in our daily lives by the government.

If they could fix those three things, I would be a lifetime supporter.
Somebody give this man a gold medal or something
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:37 PM #15
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Not unless we place only the most competent in such positions.

The point about faith was a jab at this perceived objectivity surrounding the core principles of the Democratic party. It requires an equal amount of faith to accept those principles as it does to accept Christ is your savior.
Faith doesn't belong in politics, period.

You could say it takes faith to take any politician at their word.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:40 PM #16
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Faith doesn't belong in politics, period.

You could say it takes faith to take any politician at their word.
Its there. I dont see this changing. Do you?
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:41 PM #17
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Its there. I dont see this changing. Do you?
It'll change, but not before I'm dead. Unless of course there's a change of venue.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:46 PM #18
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Both sides are equally religious in my mind. One is open about their religion. The other refuses to admit they have faith in a political religion.
Wouldn't you say one side openly swings around their religion, and the other keeps their personal religious views sheathed during discussion (Theistic religion)?

And as far as some people having faith in a "political religion" as you call it, I'd say that is on both sides, and neither admit to having it. So the right sort of has 2 religions (3 if you count money/gold ).

Republicans championing of the constitution, lower taxes, resistance to science, and global policing from the military are just as politically "religious" as things like egalitarianism or whatever other beliefs you'd argue that some Democrats subscribe to.

So I guess I don't see the point in saying that the Democrats refuse to admit they have a political religion, especially to say this in a derogatory way. The Republicans have that also, they just have an actual religion in addition to their "political religion" to shape their stances/opinions.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:52 PM #19
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Wouldn't you say one side openly swings around their religion, and the other keeps their personal religious views sheathed during discussion (Theistic religion)?

And as far as some people having faith in a "political religion" as you call it, I'd say that is on both sides, and neither admit to having it. So the right sort of has 2 religions (3 if you count money/gold ).

Republicans championing of the constitution, lower taxes, resistance to science, and global policing from the military are just as politically "religious" as things like egalitarianism or whatever other beliefs you'd argue that some Democrats subscribe to.

So I guess I don't see the point in saying that the Democrats refuse to admit they have a political religion, especially to say this in a derogatory way. The Republicans have that also, they just have an actual religion in addition to their "political religion" to shape their stances/opinions.
No I'd say they both swing around their faiths. It is most sickening when they do it to further themselves in the social limelight.

I disagree that the left and right see money as anything less than God. If the left didn't value money as much as they do, they wouldn't be riling people up telling them they should want more than they have. Among other things.

I'll agree with the rest of your assessment. I used it in a derogatory way because even Democrats display all the negative characteristics attributed to traditionally religious folk. If it weren't for all the snide comments coming out of them along with an unwillingness to look at the mirror and into their own backyard I'd probably be more friendly about it.

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Old 08-07-2012, 02:56 PM #20
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It'll change, but not before I'm dead. Unless of course there's a change of venue.
I really can't see the human race forgoing the use of faith entirely. So long as we lack the ability to know the future with complete certainty.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:56 PM #21
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I really can't see the human race forgoing the use of faith entirely. So long as we lack the ability to know the future with complete certainty.
I never said faith would disappear, just that it'll be relegated to the fringes of society and not be anywhere close to politics.
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