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Old 08-09-2012, 07:35 PM #22
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
The only reason the Arabs support a Palestinian state is because it is a proxy for the removal of Isreal. What does that tell us?
lol what?
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:04 PM #23
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lol what?
Arab support for a nation of Palestine is a relatively new thing. They didn't care until they decided to use her as a means to oust Isreal.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:40 PM #24
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Arab support for a nation of Palestine is a relatively new thing. They didn't care until they decided to use her as a means to oust Isreal.
Israel isn't going anywhere unless you count going back to the 1967 borders but that's a bit of a toss up.
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:17 AM #25
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Originally Posted by F1VENOM View Post
Israel isn't going anywhere unless you count going back to the 1967 borders but that's a bit of a toss up.
Realistically no it isnt. That's besides the point. Arabs still want it out, by and large.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:40 PM #26
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The only reason the Arabs support a Palestinian state is because it is a proxy for the removal of Isreal. What does that tell us?
It tells us the same thing the torah and bible tell us, the jews shall NOT have a homeland until god returns, gathers his flock(not half of them) and returns them to the holy land.

Also, if the jews wanted to move to where there is a majority of them, how about NYC? As many jews there(almost) as in the whole country of israel.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:56 PM #27
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I agree yesme, zionism is ****ed.



*(Because there is no legitimate argument for the formation of Israel, they are a product of British imperialism and the carving up of the Ottoman Empire)

Israel is an unjustified state, carved out purely for creating chaos.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:57 PM #28
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I agree yesme, zionism is ****ed.



And F1 Venom this is for you:


Says using bible as reason for gay discrimination is wrong



Uses bible as support for Israel argument.*



*(Because there is no legitimate argument for the formation of Israel, they are a product of British imperialism and the carving up of the Ottoman Empire)





Israel is an unjustified state, carved out purely for creating chaos.
Wat? Where did I use the bible for any justification of anything?
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:00 PM #29
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It tells us the same thing the torah and bible tell us, the jews shall NOT have a homeland until god returns, gathers his flock(not half of them) and returns them to the holy land.

Also, if the jews wanted to move to where there is a majority of them, how about NYC? As many jews there(almost) as in the whole country of israel.
That would be fine if you are fine with removing NYC from the union.

Exactly which part about a Jewish homeland is ****ed? Max
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:02 PM #30
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My bad I mistaked one of martian's posts as yours. I will edit that.






Martian:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpow999 View Post
I agree yesme, zionism is ****ed.



*(Because there is no legitimate argument for the formation of Israel, they are a product of British imperialism and the carving up of the Ottoman Empire)

Israel is an unjustified state, carved out purely for creating chaos.


Its right there.


If we want to follow the bibles interpretation they shouldn't be going back to the "promised land" until he (God) returns them there.

If we want to follow historically what happened in that region, its never been the Jewish homeland, there never has been one, they've always lived in harmony with Arabs and the Semitic tribes of the region, of course until the formation of Israel where they are used as a proxy by the west to destabilize the Middle East for the extraction of resources and justified occupations.


Israel was formed for British imperial interests, not to be some wonderful place for Jews to finally get to live.
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:12 PM #31
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Unjustified state? Would you rather them endure the same demonization and marginalization they've experienced for centuries as guests in their host nations? Isreall is one of the few things done right after WW2.

Both Isreal and Palestine are proxies. Yet in the void of either outside scheme, Isreal has a justifiable existence whereas Palestine does not.
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:18 PM #32
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Israel isn't legit, it's just the spoils of war.
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:10 PM #33
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The same can be said for most nations.
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:12 PM #34
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
The same can be said for most nations.
Yeah but Israel's story is more akin to a British colony.
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:15 PM #35
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Unjustified state? Would you rather them endure the same demonization and marginalization they've experienced for centuries as guests in their host nations? Isreall is one of the few things done right after WW2.

Both Isreal and Palestine are proxies. Yet in the void of either outside scheme, Isreal has a justifiable existence whereas Palestine does not.
Yeah, they have it really, really, i mean REALLY bad here in america, i mean besides owning anything worth any value that is(banks,advertising,movies,etc,etc).
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:09 PM #36
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Yeah, they have it really, really, i mean REALLY bad here in america, i mean besides owning anything worth any value that is(banks,advertising,movies,etc,etc).
They've always done that. People don't mind when times are good. When times are mad the majority population almost always lashes out at the "other"
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:02 PM #37
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By all objective measurements it is. What is better for everyone in the long term?
Isn't it a tad bit unfair to compare two markets, one that allows free trade and one that is under occupation and a crushing blockade?

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Neither peace nor war are truly everlasting conditions. The Palestinians returning to their own kind and the Jews having a place for their own kind is the best path towards any hope for stability and peace.
In order for the Palestinians to return to their own kind, they'd need the right of return. You do understand hundreds of thousands of ethnic Palestinians were forcefully removed from there homes in modern day Israel, right? If the Israeli's want to return to where they came from, they can move back to Poland, Russia, and Germany.

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The difference is that the Palestinians are ethnically Egyptian, jordinian etc etc and they should go to those lands. The Jews don't have any other Jewish place to go. Poland and Germany are the territories of the poles and the Germans. Can't send em there.

EDIT

Forgot Syrian as well
No, the Palestinians are ethnically Palestinian...of course they are close ethnically to Jordanians the most, and then Syrians, but are you saying that a distinct population of Arabs did not live in modern day Israel before the formation of the state? I'm surprised you feel Palestinians are ethnically Egyptian...not only are Egyptians ethnically distinct they look, sound, and have a very distinct culture from Palestinians/other Arabs. A large percentage of Egyptians don't even consider themselves ethnically Arab. Trust me, I'm Egyptian, I know. I find it rather insulting you're so casually denying the rights of the Palestinians, who have had blood ties to the Levant for thousands of years, in telling them to just "move to Syria" or "go to Jordan" or perhaps the most insulting, "ship them to Egypt".

Your entire premises is false considering you group the Palestinians ethnically but the Jews religiously. Palestinians are Muslim/Christian. The Jews in Israel are mostly ethnically European and Russian. I also find it interesting that you are not willing to move the Jews to Germany/Poland even though most Israeli Jews are ethnically German/Poland, but you have no problem keeping them in Palestine which is quite obviously the land of the ethnic Palestinians who've lived there for thousands of years. I just can't see the logic in your reasoning.

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Arab support for a nation of Palestine is a relatively new thing. They didn't care until they decided to use her as a means to oust Isreal.
It's a relatively new thing because there was never any issue or conflict in the land until the state of Israel. There was no need for a "Palestinian" state, because not only was the land already autonomously governed by the Arabs who lived there, it was under Muslim control and neighboring provinces had no reason to be involved. They were not going to fight there Arab brothers and sisters who were doing no harm to them....
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:06 PM #38
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Unjustified state? Would you rather them endure the same demonization and marginalization they've experienced for centuries as guests in their host nations? Isreall is one of the few things done right after WW2.

Both Isreal and Palestine are proxies. Yet in the void of either outside scheme, Isreal has a justifiable existence whereas Palestine does not.
The state of Israel was the giant turd left behind after WW2, culminating the end of the war into a disaster for the Middle East (which can't be any more obvious). Israel has not a single justifiable existence because they have no blood ties to the land, and they cleansed the land through terror and murder to clear the space for there illegal immigration. The Palestinians have lived in the land for thousands of years and were forcefully removed or killed. I believe that provides as much justification as humanely possible.
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:04 PM #39
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Isn't it a tad bit unfair to compare two markets, one that allows free trade and one that is under occupation and a crushing blockade?



In order for the Palestinians to return to their own kind, they'd need the right of return. You do understand hundreds of thousands of ethnic Palestinians were forcefully removed from there homes in modern day Israel, right? If the Israeli's want to return to where they came from, they can move back to Poland, Russia, and Germany.



No, the Palestinians are ethnically Palestinian...of course they are close ethnically to Jordanians the most, and then Syrians, but are you saying that a distinct population of Arabs did not live in modern day Israel before the formation of the state? I'm surprised you feel Palestinians are ethnically Egyptian...not only are Egyptians ethnically distinct they look, sound, and have a very distinct culture from Palestinians/other Arabs. A large percentage of Egyptians don't even consider themselves ethnically Arab. Trust me, I'm Egyptian, I know. I find it rather insulting you're so casually denying the rights of the Palestinians, who have had blood ties to the Levant for thousands of years, in telling them to just "move to Syria" or "go to Jordan" or perhaps the most insulting, "ship them to Egypt".

Your entire premises is false considering you group the Palestinians ethnically but the Jews religiously. Palestinians are Muslim/Christian. The Jews in Israel are mostly ethnically European and Russian. I also find it interesting that you are not willing to move the Jews to Germany/Poland even though most Israeli Jews are ethnically German/Poland, but you have no problem keeping them in Palestine which is quite obviously the land of the ethnic Palestinians who've lived there for thousands of years. I just can't see the logic in your reasoning.



It's a relatively new thing because there was never any issue or conflict in the land until the state of Israel. There was no need for a "Palestinian" state, because not only was the land already autonomously governed by the Arabs who lived there, it was under Muslim control and neighboring provinces had no reason to be involved. They were not going to fight there Arab brothers and sisters who were doing no harm to them....



I notice people love to talk about something they have no clue about except what zionist schoolbooks/tv told them to think.
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:19 PM #40
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I notice people love to talk about something they have no clue about except what zionist schoolbooks/tv told them to think.
Zionism > Islamism any day of the week.

But using religion in order to further a geo-political agenda is pretty ****ed regardless.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:45 AM #41
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Originally Posted by The Abstract View Post
Isn't it a tad bit unfair to compare two markets, one that allows free trade and one that is under occupation and a crushing blockade?



In order for the Palestinians to return to their own kind, they'd need the right of return. You do understand hundreds of thousands of ethnic Palestinians were forcefully removed from there homes in modern day Israel, right? If the Israeli's want to return to where they came from, they can move back to Poland, Russia, and Germany.



No, the Palestinians are ethnically Palestinian...of course they are close ethnically to Jordanians the most, and then Syrians, but are you saying that a distinct population of Arabs did not live in modern day Israel before the formation of the state? I'm surprised you feel Palestinians are ethnically Egyptian...not only are Egyptians ethnically distinct they look, sound, and have a very distinct culture from Palestinians/other Arabs. A large percentage of Egyptians don't even consider themselves ethnically Arab. Trust me, I'm Egyptian, I know. I find it rather insulting you're so casually denying the rights of the Palestinians, who have had blood ties to the Levant for thousands of years, in telling them to just "move to Syria" or "go to Jordan" or perhaps the most insulting, "ship them to Egypt".

Your entire premises is false considering you group the Palestinians ethnically but the Jews religiously. Palestinians are Muslim/Christian. The Jews in Israel are mostly ethnically European and Russian. I also find it interesting that you are not willing to move the Jews to Germany/Poland even though most Israeli Jews are ethnically German/Poland, but you have no problem keeping them in Palestine which is quite obviously the land of the ethnic Palestinians who've lived there for thousands of years. I just can't see the logic in your reasoning.



It's a relatively new thing because there was never any issue or conflict in the land until the state of Israel. There was no need for a "Palestinian" state, because not only was the land already autonomously governed by the Arabs who lived there, it was under Muslim control and neighboring provinces had no reason to be involved. They were not going to fight there Arab brothers and sisters who were doing no harm to them....
I was in error calling Palestinians Egyptians but that is besides the point. It doesn't matter who had what land first. It is about who takes and holds land, and perhaps, to what greater ends.

The point of sending Palestinians to other nations is that they will have ethnic homes there. To hell with the nation state thing here for a second. Jews are not Poles or Germans. Sending them back there makes no sense. I'm dealing with Jews as an ethnicity not just a faith.

Palestine tried to.declare itself in what? 47? And not even the Arab nations recognized it?
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:49 AM #42
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The state of Israel was the giant turd left behind after WW2, culminating the end of the war into a disaster for the Middle East (which can't be any more obvious). Israel has not a single justifiable existence because they have no blood ties to the land, and they cleansed the land through terror and murder to clear the space for there illegal immigration. The Palestinians have lived in the land for thousands of years and were forcefully removed or killed. I believe that provides as much justification as humanely possible.
Nope. The state of Isreal solves a historic problem. If the Arab nations want the land back for Arabs, go take it. Stop whining about illegitimate state this and murderous that. You're not going to win me over with empathy for any group here.
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