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Old 08-09-2012, 06:41 PM #22
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:43 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comfymumfy View Post
I dislike mandatory breaks...they always take longer than anticipated and they disrupt the flow of the game.
+1
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:48 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFBalz View Post
Simply put, if I were to run a game I couldn't play it.
I have no interest in living off the game, my paint money comes from chasing bad guys through housing projects and down alleys. I'm a player... a consumer. I sample what's been created and decide if it's worth any more of my time.
We hear a lot about "attendance is down" and "the economy sucks." Do you think that if these fields stopped running the same miss-able games year after year, or maybe got crazy and revisited the old school formats and made the games really challenging, that maybe the people would show? I do. I remember people flying in from all over the country for Wayne's Squirmish games in July... then flying again to Ocala in December. Because they were the best and players would pass on a lot of hamburger to eat the steak. Now people throw the latest movie title on a tired format and blame the economy for the ****ty attendance. Run a game that offers everything the locals don't, and the scenario community will beat a path to your door... no matter where it is.

I know you guys do well with D-Day, just as Squirmish does with ION. Congrats on the success and from a money standpoint I understand not fixing it if it ain't broken... but those are niche games. They're like Grateful Dead concerts of paintball. It's mostly the same people year after year and that's fine... but for my money, those games just are big hamburgers. Give me a true 24hr game with absolutely no stand downs, and NVG friendly... I'll be there. Offer me a good steak game and I'm looking for the best airfare and car rental... you'll get my reg, money for at least 2 cases and a heartfelt thank you for doing it right.



Hey, if the players that experienced that golden age don't at least try to turn the ship around... when we all hangup our gear, the game will be left to those who don't know any better.
Belzy you have an amen from this corner. All I can say is we are working on it. Shame there are only a few teams left that have the guts to tell the " I can't figure out how to write a game so I'll steal hollywoods script" producers and fields to take their sorry *** big game theme and stuff it up their ***. Most of these teams are so used to eating the sloppy rehash they wouldn't know a real scenario if it landed on them.
They also are so used to moving all information through their 4th point of contact, that the rectal cranial inversion is a natural state of being.
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Old 08-12-2012, 05:50 AM #25
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1 Shepherd

For those of you oiut there looking for something out of
the ordinary here's a suggestion. True, these people
aren't using Paintball, but what they are doing is taking
the MIL-SIM concept to a much higher level.

If you know of someone else who is offering a similar
type of program, please pass along the details.

1 Shepherd - http://1shepherd.com/default.aspx

https://www.facebook.com/OneShepherd

POC for this group is Mr. Christopher Larsen. Chris
has an extensive military background, plus he's also
the author of several military manuals which deal with
tactics, organization, etc.
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:31 AM #26
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Andy, mil sim isn't what we are looking for. What Belz is looking for is what got us playing scenario, the game, the intensity, the immersion.
It just isn't there any more. The truth of the matter is that there are fields nationwide holding events every weekend and they have so diluted what a scenario was into this bastardized version of a big game, that without the frame of reference older players have, new players subsist on a steady diet of nothing thinking they are getting the goods. Really all they are getting is the bill of sale.
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:24 PM #27
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I support both. Some people will not take the breaks that they really need as they get to rapped up. I for one like timed breaks, but 2 hours is way to long. 1 hour is plenty.
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:42 AM #28
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Immersion

Quote:
Andy, mil sim isn't what we are looking for. What Belz is looking
for is what got us playing scenario, the game, the intensity, the immersion.
It just isn't there any more.
Shadawg,

I hear you, what you want is an event that makes you feel as if you're
taking part in some sort of engagement that's as close to real as it can be,
while not raising the risks of serious injury or death. Sort of like what
what I think NBC is pitching they're going to do during their new show
'Stars Earn Stripes.'

There are a number of problems with staging such events, not the least
of which has to do with the average players lack of interest in adopting
the role he's going to be given. Couple this with his/her typical lack of
skill when it comes to carrying out their assignment, along with the fact
that they also typically unprepared to endure 24 hours under the stress
that comes from playing a emmersive role and you can begin to understand
why such events have faded from the radar.

I know what it's like to literally spend months putting together an event,
only to find that one group wasn't capable of properly guarding the key 'prop'
which was intended to play a critical role during the event. This resulted in
another team stealing the prop (20' long missile on trailer), which they then
broke down and hid for the rest of the event. Another example involved an
event which involved the use of several mock mortars, which were intended
to be moved into position during an attack on a base. Trouble was no one
wanted to be saddled with having to carry the plates and tubes, let alone set
them up. Ok, so now instead of using the script as it we'd written it, we had
to 'X out' missions and rewrite others to insure that the game still flowed
smoothly.

Then there's the matter of the time it takes to write a script for an event
like this. I literally spent several months once, garthering data for the first
scenario Wayne Dollack and I staged at Skirmish. Called "Into Laos, the
Search for Jim Thompson," the event involved American units, Thai PARU
forces, Cambodian and Lao tribesmen and VC elements. We went so far
as to plaster the field with wanted posters, showing Thompson along with
the notice that there was a reward for his safe return. Each player who
took part also received a 3" X 5" index card, which listed his name, unit,
MOS and some personal details about who they were. Of course all of this
took time, just as it also took time to construct the special pyro charges we
used to boobytrap various trails and critical bridge crossings. We also had
to string wire and set out a powerful PA system which was used to play
various sounds, which added to the sense of reality everyone felt. We
were so successful with all of these preperations this that we had people
thinking they were really under attack when the perimeter trip wire charges
we'd set went off, coupled with the star shell and air bursts we launched.

Was it worth it, yes because by towards the end I got to watch players, who
had been total strangers a few hours before allowing themselves to become
targets, just so their buddies could get another yard or two closer to their
final objective. Was it worth it financially, no it wasn't. I could have probably
earned more working at McDonalds, if you factor in the number of hours I
spent gathering the details, creating the player ID cards, writing the missions,
not to mention the cost of having to make two trips to Paul's field, time on site,
etc., etc.
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Last edited by dorsai : 08-13-2012 at 06:45 AM. Reason: formatting
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:24 AM #29
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Again, Zero to do with the "Real Engagement" feel. If you want that, switch platforms and play with the airsoft crowd. They act more than they play.

What i want (...and those like-minded) is old school scenarios... Games written to be challenging regardless if people wanted to go "all in" or not.

Don't want to play at night? You're choice. You'll probably lose, but like I said, your choice.

Wanna grab a bite to eat? Do it, but don't take too long... the game keeps rolling. The length of time is your choice. Take too long, you'll probably lose.

Feel like complaining because someone has better equipment than you? Get a heart felt slamming of the trailer door in your face. Buy better stuff, if you can't afford it, work some OT... or don't... deal with it or stay home in protest.

Players played the game as written, games weren't written to accommodate the players motivation (or lack thereof)

What happened was... the whiners stopped coming, and the games were better for it...

Then people started to think they could reinvent the wheel. When that proved difficult, they watered down the proven method so it could work for both ease and speed. (ie, the "we hold a scenario game every other Saturday" crowd) At that point, since quality was out the window, "producers" decided that cash is king and that ***** money spends like big boy money, so the *****es got their audience to insure they kept coming back. The scenario game as we knew it, died.
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:39 PM #30
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Well I can say I've taken a pod full of fun sized candy bars on to the field to make sure I stay on mission, hydrate well when I need paint and air and maybe wipe off some sweat. If I need something beyond that I'm a big boy I can figure it out myself.
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:15 AM #31
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mandatory breaks are weak. let those who want to actually acomplish something on the field do so as they like
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:58 AM #32
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:01 PM #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dorsai View Post
Shadawg,

I hear you, what you want is an event that makes you feel as if you're
taking part in some sort of engagement that's as close to real as it can be,
while not raising the risks of serious injury or death. Sort of like what
what I think NBC is pitching they're going to do during their new show
'Stars Earn Stripes.'

There are a number of problems with staging such events, not the least
of which has to do with the average players lack of interest in adopting
the role he's going to be given. Couple this with his/her typical lack of
skill when it comes to carrying out their assignment, along with the fact
that they also typically unprepared to endure 24 hours under the stress
that comes from playing a emmersive role and you can begin to understand
why such events have faded from the radar.

I know what it's like to literally spend months putting together an event,
only to find that one group wasn't capable of properly guarding the key 'prop'
which was intended to play a critical role during the event. This resulted in
another team stealing the prop (20' long missile on trailer), which they then
broke down and hid for the rest of the event. Another example involved an
event which involved the use of several mock mortars, which were intended
to be moved into position during an attack on a base. Trouble was no one
wanted to be saddled with having to carry the plates and tubes, let alone set
them up. Ok, so now instead of using the script as it we'd written it, we had
to 'X out' missions and rewrite others to insure that the game still flowed
smoothly.

Then there's the matter of the time it takes to write a script for an event
like this. I literally spent several months once, garthering data for the first
scenario Wayne Dollack and I staged at Skirmish. Called "Into Laos, the
Search for Jim Thompson," the event involved American units, Thai PARU
forces, Cambodian and Lao tribesmen and VC elements. We went so far
as to plaster the field with wanted posters, showing Thompson along with
the notice that there was a reward for his safe return. Each player who
took part also received a 3" X 5" index card, which listed his name, unit,
MOS and some personal details about who they were. Of course all of this
took time, just as it also took time to construct the special pyro charges we
used to boobytrap various trails and critical bridge crossings. We also had
to string wire and set out a powerful PA system which was used to play
various sounds, which added to the sense of reality everyone felt. We
were so successful with all of these preperations this that we had people
thinking they were really under attack when the perimeter trip wire charges
we'd set went off, coupled with the star shell and air bursts we launched.

Was it worth it, yes because by towards the end I got to watch players, who
had been total strangers a few hours before allowing themselves to become
targets, just so their buddies could get another yard or two closer to their
final objective. Was it worth it financially, no it wasn't. I could have probably
earned more working at McDonalds, if you factor in the number of hours I
spent gathering the details, creating the player ID cards, writing the missions,
not to mention the cost of having to make two trips to Paul's field, time on site,
etc., etc.

SOOOO dead on! I can't count the cool missions I created only to find no one was interested in being the engineer, the satellite tracking receiver operator, the mine sweep operator, etc. These were real time missions using real equipment that I spent a lot of money and time on.....for nothing. The KISS method always works better! As it is, I am putting a lunch break back for now. First time in years, but the numbers are down, so not as many hardcore players who will stay in the game anyway. Hopefully the economy will improve and along with it, l the numbers.
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Old 08-31-2012, 09:47 AM #34
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No lunch breaks. Eat if you want. I grab a bite when I'm off field for air.

If the forecast heat index is excessively hot, A mandatory break is a good idea to get everyone off the field and hydrated. Also a good idea to have a buddy system in case someone does not show up for the Break and is MIA and down somewhere on the field with a heat stroke.

Went to one game with a 105 heat index. Three went to the hospital for IVs and several others got sick enough to leave the game. And they had a mandatory lunch break... It was a brutally hot day.

Evening break. Don't hear too many complaints. It is a good idea to have a night game briefing for the NEWBIES. There are significantly different rules and if they have no experience with night play it may get stranger than usual.
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Last edited by Boom Master : 08-31-2012 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:21 PM #35
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My event schedule usually has the game start at Noon on Saturday. We stand down in time to have dinner and get things back on around sunset, but before it actually gets dark, so that the players' eyes can adjust as darkness falls.

We stand down Saturday night when the commanders agree that we don't have enough players on the field to justify the event staff working.

We resume at 9am on Sunday and go until 2pm.

The only time we have a break during the day is if the temps are ninety or above. If that is the case we will add a one-hour break about halfway through the first segment on Saturday. I have found that this cuts down on heat-related issues because players will use the break to hydrate when they may have otherwise been too busy to remember to do so.

Aside from that I try to keep things rolling as continuously as possible. When I have been to an event as a player, and they have breaks, they inevitably seem to fall at a time when I was either in the middle of a big move, or just heading back onto the field. For this reason I usually find them to be annoying.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:39 AM #36
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I myself feel it is stupid to shut the game down for lunch break because if your doing great then when the game starts back up your team may lose alot of ground
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:48 AM #37
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Time out

There's only two reasons you'd loose ground
during a break. The first way is when the game
promoter makes changes in your situation and
the second is when you fail to monitor what's
going on during the break. Stop thinking you
are playing paintball and start thinking more
along military lines and any breaks that might
occur won't be an issue, that is unless as I said
before, the game promoter decides to 'adjust'
things.

Sincerely,
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:17 AM #38
JFBalz
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So...
If my crew is pressing into the other side of the field and have them back on their heels and totally defensive... and the break is called...

When the game restarts with everyone back at their bases, I haven't lost the the advantage, I haven't lost ground?

Breaks are bull****.
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:01 AM #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFBalz View Post
Personally, I don't need a game stoppage to eat, drink or take a piss. I can handle all that myself. If there are those who would be on the field to the point of exhaustion or too stupid to not bring water on a hot day without a mandatory stop...well, nature always does find ways to cull the heard, doesn't it?
This needs to be mentioned again.
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:20 PM #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFBalz
So...
If my crew is pressing into the other side of the field and have them back on their heels and totally defensive... and the break is called...

When the game restarts with everyone back at their bases, I haven't lost the the advantage, I haven't lost ground?

Breaks are bull****.
I can't tell you how many times that has happened to us... Gotta agree with you there.

Web you recruit you have to look at the makeup of a team as well, certain teams go out and gun and then go off the field for 30 minutes where as other go out, gun for an hour, come off the field just long enough to grab something that looks edible while they are podding and airing up to go out and rip someone's face off again.

That's how you play, and the side that recruits those teams should reap the benefits.
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:29 PM #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thompsonshooter View Post
I personally like no real game breaks if the game is 12 Hours or less. If it's a 26hr game a 2 hr. Dinner break is nice.

But if the game were to be as real as possible and a total scenario game, then 0 Breaks and eat in your foxhole.
I wish OK d day would go to a 16-25 hour format. I would love to have the main game go from about 9 pm Friday to 5 pm Saturday. Make things alot more interesting for us in the 101st
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:22 AM #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PYROMAN View Post
As a Promoter, we always schedule lunch breaks. The main reason is, it keeps player more in line with the game schedule. If we don't break, players tend to come off whenever they want, making sides very uneven.
We also have ALOT of lunch break activities, plus we re chrono all players before they go back out for the 2nd half of the day.
And we start the game on time, from start to end, with or without players on the field. A Lot of time and effort goes into creating these games, and when it comes time to play, the Promoters and Players should all be ready to hit the field.
A one hour break typically works best.
I dislike this approach... I end up coming on and off the field as paint/air and bio dictate... will eat accordingly.
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