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Old 12-21-2013, 11:13 PM #1
Spokehead87
 
 
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Shops swapping expired tanks?

I am trying to put together enough paintball gear for about 10 people so I can start taking my church youth group kids paintballing. I hadn't counted on the cost of hydro testing or buying new co2 tanks though.

I vaguely remember a local shop taking my empty tank and handing me a full tank though years ago (I haven't paintballed in almost ten years).

My question is....is it possible that I could take ten expired aluminum co2 tanks in and walk out with 10 full non-expired tanks with only having paid for the cost of filling them up?

Does anyone have any insight or experience that would support this possibility or is it too good to be true?
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:23 AM #2
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they probably only gave you a non expired tank because the tank you gave back was their tank or something that wasn't expired.
don't do what you're contemplating, it's a dick move.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:32 AM #3
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I wasnt planning on trying to deceive anyone and pull "a dick move". I was just wondering if it was common for shops to have a policy where they exchange tanks for full ones rather than filling them up and how that worked with tank expiration. Honestly I didn't even know that tanks expired till about a week ago.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:34 AM #4
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my apologies. I didn't mean to come off rude. yeah, not a good idea because the tanks will eventually go to another user and if it's expired/bad it might injure another user.
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:00 AM #5
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Highly unlikely that would happen now-a-days. I have not heard of any place that does that.

As for hydro of a CO2 tank........unless you have a local place that does it cheap, it isn't worth it since you could get a new tank for about the same price.
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Old 12-22-2013, 08:11 AM #6
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Yeah....so it looks like I'll just be buying new tanks then...what do i do with the old ones?
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:04 AM #7
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Take them to a scrap metal yard and get a few bucks for them. Make sure they're empty though. You can remove the valves if you want and save those, they never go bad until they actually wear out. It's only the cylinder that expires.

As far as a tank exchange, I don't think they do it anymore but Blue Rhino was doing co2 cylinder exchanges at Sports Authority and probably a few other places. Same company that does the propane cylinders. Again, I don't think they do that anymore. And it's quite odd to have an exchange program to be totally honest as far as tank fills go.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:11 AM #8
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Yeah I figured that financially it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to be accepting tanks that need money invested into them before they are refilled.

What would be the advantage to keeping the valves? Is it possible to buy new tanks without valves at a lower cost?
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:33 PM #9
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I wouldn't keep the valves. Just try to separate them, so that you get the value of Aluminum for the cylinders, and value of Brass for the valves.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:50 PM #10
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Ok that makes sense I'll do that.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:44 AM #11
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Ok that makes sense I'll do that.
yeah we take them in and just scrap them. Thats all that its really worth to do with them.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:31 AM #12
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Some people like to have the valves and burst discs on hand just in case they need them. If you're not going to use them or think you're going to have a use for them, then scrap them as well.
You're only going to get a few bucks for everything but it's something towards buying a new tank at least.
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Old 12-23-2013, 12:07 PM #13
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Some people like to have the valves and burst discs on hand just in case they need them. If you're not going to use them or think you're going to have a use for them, then scrap them as well.
You're only going to get a few bucks for everything but it's something towards buying a new tank at least.
I can see the logic of keeping the burst disk, but the entire valve? It would almost be more work, and trouble, to deal with storing brass valves, and then taking off the previous valve with an issue, than to simply buy a new valve, or even a new tank. What with Loctite taking 24 hours to cure, you aren't going to be able to use the tank the day that your old valve has an issue, and you choose to replace it.
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Old 12-24-2013, 07:06 AM #14
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People save the valves to make Anti-siphon systems as well. There are reasons for keeping them but you don't have too. I was just tossing it out there that the valve is worth keeping if anything.
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Old 12-24-2013, 08:32 AM #15
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I decided to buy a ten pack of 20oz tanks for about 150. Not as much fun as using old ones for free but I thought that was a pretty reasonable price. Also the local Sporting goods store said they will fill aluminum co2 tanks up to ten years after their born on date instead of five so I'm set for a while.
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:28 AM #16
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I would cross reference the DOT information that is stamped on the side of the cylinder via the dot.gov website. Or a google search of the DOT number should bring you right to the pdf document associated with the tank.
I only say this because if it's required to get a hydro test every five years, a shop filling the cylinder past the five year mark is in federal violation. Should something happen you could be held responsible and the store. And often times when a cylinder does fail their is going to be a lot of finger pointing so you best have yourself covered and do it by the numbers at least when the government is involved.

Usually the only times the hydro can be slightly 'fudged' is if the tank never leaves the field of use. It's a grey area law and I never really looked into it more in depth since it doesn't apply to players, only fields. Essentially from my understanding if it's a field cylinder and it never leaves the property it doesn't have to be hydro tested as long as their isn't something physically/visually wrong with it. Again, a grey area law/regulation but it doesn't apply under normal circumstances at all and the tanks should still be hydroed to insure maximum safety; but the DOT grants certain exemptions.

I know it sounds like I'm 'preaching' all the time but the cylinders do need to be handled with a certain degree of knowledge and understanding. They can be dangerous and people often times think they are doing something safely but are actually doing something quite dangerous or potentially dangerous. Keep in mind, this is one of the few sports where 10 and 12 year old children are handed 1800-4500 psi cylinders.
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:35 AM #17
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I would cross reference the DOT information that is stamped on the side of the cylinder via the dot.gov website. Or a google search of the DOT number should bring you right to the pdf document associated with the tank.
I only say this because if it's required to get a hydro test every five years, a shop filling the cylinder past the five year mark is in federal violation. Should something happen you could be held responsible and the store. And often times when a cylinder does fail their is going to be a lot of finger pointing so you best have yourself covered and do it by the numbers at least when the government is involved.

Usually the only times the hydro can be slightly 'fudged' is if the tank never leaves the field of use. It's a grey area law and I never really looked into it more in depth since it doesn't apply to players, only fields. Essentially from my understanding if it's a field cylinder and it never leaves the property it doesn't have to be hydro tested as long as their isn't something physically/visually wrong with it. Again, a grey area law/regulation but it doesn't apply under normal circumstances at all and the tanks should still be hydroed to insure maximum safety; but the DOT grants certain exemptions.

I know it sounds like I'm 'preaching' all the time but the cylinders do need to be handled with a certain degree of knowledge and understanding. They can be dangerous and people often times think they are doing something safely but are actually doing something quite dangerous or potentially dangerous. Keep in mind, this is one of the few sports where 10 and 12 year old children are handed 1800-4500 psi cylinders.
I hear ya. And I appreciate the advice. I will actually be taking 10 to 12 year olds out to play so I will really need to cover the legal angles or my church and I could get into big trouble (not to mention the hurt kids).

Any advice on where to look for a good paintball waiver for parents to sign?
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Old 12-24-2013, 11:18 AM #18
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That I am not sure on to be honest. I'm not lawyer or legal adviser by any means other then offering player to player advice. If it's a church group and you're going to be playing in the woods or private property I would probably consult your churches insurance company and the property owners as well.
I wouldn't expect anything catastrophic but I have seen cuts/gashes that have resulted in falls from tripping over things.
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Old 12-24-2013, 11:42 AM #19
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I hear ya. And I appreciate the advice. I will actually be taking 10 to 12 year olds out to play so I will really need to cover the legal angles or my church and I could get into big trouble (not to mention the hurt kids). Any advice on where to look for a good paintball waiver for parents to sign?
The tanks have to be retested every 5 years and in the case if Co2 tanks it's costs less for a new 20oz tank then it does for the testing.
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Old 12-24-2013, 11:51 AM #20
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People save the valves to make Anti-siphon systems as well. There are reasons for keeping them but you don't have too. I was just tossing it out there that the valve is worth keeping if anything.
Which is kind of odd. It isn't an actual modification to the valve, as it is just a piece of tubing placed into the valve. So I can't see that as any practical reason as to why one would actually keep a valve. It does not actually lessen the work, or the time needed for the Loctite to cure, or the like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spokehead87 View Post
I decided to buy a ten pack of 20oz tanks for about 150. Not as much fun as using old ones for free but I thought that was a pretty reasonable price. Also the local Sporting goods store said they will fill aluminum co2 tanks up to ten years after their born on date instead of five so I'm set for a while.
That is actually a pretty good deal. The cheapest hydro that I know of is one place does it at $17.95 per tank, when you hydro three or more tanks. This does not include the $5 removal of the valve. So bravo on that.
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:08 PM #21
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I hear ya. And I appreciate the advice. I will actually be taking 10 to 12 year olds out to play so I will really need to cover the legal angles or my church and I could get into big trouble (not to mention the hurt kids).

Any advice on where to look for a good paintball waiver for parents to sign?
Where are you playing? At a paintball field or private property? At a field they are going to have waivers (that the child and you will sign) but I would get one for the parents to sign for the church records. It would be easy enough to modify a copy of the one they have at the field. Private property you have to speak with your insurance and again you could modify a waiver with your church's information on it (Google "paintball waiver").

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.
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