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Old 08-24-2012, 07:42 AM #1
eninn (Banned)
 
 
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Science and faith

Allah Almighty gave many graces for His creatures, even in the deep oceans, let us read and glorify God ....

When Prophet Moses went to the pharaoh calling him to believe in Allah, the pharaoh asked him who is Allah. Then Moses replied: (Our Lord is He who gave to each thing its form and nature, then guided it aright.) (Sūrat Tā-Hā-verse50). Those words were enough for the pharaoh to believe in Allah but the pharaoh did not understand. In these words there are great miracles as everyday scientists discover unknown creatures for us and also they discover that the systems of these creatures couldn't be developed by it, but there is a precise program controlling everything inside.

The most amazing things I have ever saw are some living organisms in the deep oceans (thousands kilometers under the sea) as God be He exalted had supported these creatures by complicated systems to release rays of light!! In 8000 meter under the ocean there is a fish that human didn't know anything about only few years ago.



God created this amazing fish, inside the body many chemicals reactions occur which leads to releasing light from it. Despite the water pressure at that point as it is 800 times the air pressure! This means that on each centimeter in its body there is a pressure up to 800 kilogram!!

The question is, how can this little fish bear that huge pressure? Who fit it to live in that depth and darkness? And who exploits the suitable livelihood to feed it?

It has no lighting system, it doesn't wear any special suit as a protection from pressure and it has no special system to avoid the cold water. The only thing it has got is small brain which contains the needed program to guide it in its way in the deep oceans.

This biological lighting occur due to some reactions inside the fish, as some atoms integrate with oxygen and calcium atoms, and because of that integration the electrons move from the inner orbit to the outer orbit in the atom to release the light photons.

Allah Almighty didn't forget these creatures whom are living eight thousand meter under the ocean, how can He almighty forget a man say "there is no God but Allah"?

Here we can say that the Qur'an told us about these creatures which are supported by light in a nice sign. He said: (Or [the state of a disbeliever] is like the darkness in a vast deep sea, overwhelmed with waves topped by waves, topped by dark clouds, (layers of) darkness upon darkness: if a man stretches out his hand, he can hardly see it! And he for whom Allah has not appointed light, for him there is no light.) (Sūrat an-Nūr-verse40).

Despite these darkness which is similar to the deeds of disbelievers but Allah had lighted the way for these creatures under the water in the darkness, so He said: (And he for whom Allah has not appointed light, for him there is no light.) (Sūrat An-Nūr-verse 40) as if He be blessed and exalted wants to tell us that He gave the lighting ability to some of His creatures. Don't we look attentively at these words to understand miracles of Allah? And to accept and understand His orders as if we do, indeed Allah will give us the light to light up our way in this world which is full of darkness of atheism and the Ignorance of God.

The pharaoh refused the "calling for truth", so can we accept it?

Allah be He blessed and exalted is the creator of everything, we ask Him to guide us to the straight way and to give us the light in the darkness of this era.

O 'God give the light of the holy Qur'an to our hearts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewVZ6eMIhP0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDRJRTrTksQ
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:07 PM #2
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The fish's internal organs are at the same pressure as the surrounding water, no magic.

Also photons are emitted from the de-excitation of electrons in orbits. The electron "falls" from a higher energy state to a lower energy state and transfers the energy into light photons instead of heat. It's not special to bioluminescence and pretty well understood.

If god is so amazing, why didn't he tell us about his amazing creations as a testament to his power? Why didn't he tell us how these creatures work?
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:22 PM #3
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God is able to everything
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60. Is not He (better than your gods) Who created the heavens and the earth, and sends down for you water (rain) from the sky, whereby We cause to grow wonderful gardens full of beauty and delight? It is not in your ability to cause the growth of their trees. Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Nay, but they are a people who ascribe equals (to Him)!

61. Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode, and has placed rivers in its midst, and has placed firm mountains therein, and has set a barrier between the two seas (of salt and sweet water).Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Nay, but most of them know not.

62. Is not He (better than your gods) Who responds to the distressed one, when he calls Him, and Who removes the evil, and makes you inheritors of the earth, generations after generations. Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Little is that you remember!

63. Is not He (better than your gods) Who guides you in the darkness of the land and the sea, and Who sends the winds as heralds of glad tidings, going before His Mercy (rain)? Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? High Exalted be Allah above all that they associate as partners (to Him)!

64. Is not He (better than your so-called gods) Who originates creation, and shall thereafter repeat it, and Who provides for you from heaven and earth? Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Say, "Bring forth your proofs, if you are truthful."
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Old 08-26-2012, 09:52 PM #4
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Science can co-exist completely in its entirety with Islam. In fact, it is our duty as Muslims to study and understand the dynamics of the universe God created, how we perceive it, and how we can benefit ourselves from it.
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:43 AM #5
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:39 PM #6
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Originally Posted by eninn View Post
God is able to everything
But God
Leave us research and exploration
For people to know
Who is God
And realize the greatness of God


60. Is not He (better than your gods) Who created the heavens and the earth, and sends down for you water (rain) from the sky, whereby We cause to grow wonderful gardens full of beauty and delight? It is not in your ability to cause the growth of their trees. Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Nay, but they are a people who ascribe equals (to Him)!

61. Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode, and has placed rivers in its midst, and has placed firm mountains therein, and has set a barrier between the two seas (of salt and sweet water).Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Nay, but most of them know not.

62. Is not He (better than your gods) Who responds to the distressed one, when he calls Him, and Who removes the evil, and makes you inheritors of the earth, generations after generations. Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Little is that you remember!

63. Is not He (better than your gods) Who guides you in the darkness of the land and the sea, and Who sends the winds as heralds of glad tidings, going before His Mercy (rain)? Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? High Exalted be Allah above all that they associate as partners (to Him)!

64. Is not He (better than your so-called gods) Who originates creation, and shall thereafter repeat it, and Who provides for you from heaven and earth? Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Say, "Bring forth your proofs, if you are truthful."
We not only help trees grow, we splice their DNA to create new hybrid plants.

What barrier between two kinds of water? We have brackish water all over in Florida.

God has never once outright demonstrably answered anyone, ever.

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Science can co-exist completely in its entirety with Islam. In fact, it is our duty as Muslims to study and understand the dynamics of the universe God created, how we perceive it, and how we can benefit ourselves from it.
If god created it and it's our duty to understand it, why don't people believe in evolution?
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:38 PM #7
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If god created it and it's our duty to understand it, why don't people believe in evolution?
Well that's the modern day science denial, funny what people decide conflicts with the word of God, like a round earth or orbiting the Sun. Within the next 30-50 years people will give up and point out how the book of genesis matches up with our current theories in science, but until then...
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:12 PM #8
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I don't think that will ever happen, so long as religion bears power science will be denied.
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Old 08-27-2012, 04:19 PM #9
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If god created it and it's our duty to understand it, why don't people believe in evolution?
Evolutionary biology is included in the high-school curricula of most Muslim countries. Science foundations of 14 Muslim countries, including Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, Indonesia, and Egypt, recently signed a statement by the Interacademy Panel (IAP, a global network of science academies), in support of the teaching of evolution, including human evolution.[31] Little is known about general societal views of evolution in Muslim countries.

"Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Jahiz

Who cares what some other people believe or think. We all have our own brains and our own ability to reason. Read the Qur'an and determine for yourself whether it conflicts with science or evolution. I have and I, along with most other Muslims, find no conflict. Even the main founder of modern "Islamism", Jamal al-Din al-Afghani, believed in evolution.

"[...] agreed with Darwin that life will compete with other life in order to succeed. He also believed that there was competition in the realm of ideas similar to that of nature. However, he was unwavering in his belief that God had to be the one controlling this process as a Creator."

BTW, I believe in evolution but not as it's being described today.
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Old 08-30-2012, 09:43 AM #10
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What barrier between two kinds of water?

The Quran on Seas and Rivers:

Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity, and density.1 For example, Mediterranean sea water is warm, saline, and less dense, compared to Atlantic ocean water. When Mediterranean sea water enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill, it moves several hundred kilometers into the Atlantic at a depth of about 1000 meters with its own warm, saline, and less dense characteristics. The Mediterranean water stabilizes



Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides in these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier.

The Holy Quran mentioned that there is a barrier between two seas that meet and that they do not transgress. God has said:

He has set free the two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress. (Quran, 55:19-20)

But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of “a forbidding partition” with the barrier. God has said in the Quran:

He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition. (Quran, 25:53)

One may ask, why did the Quran mention the partition when speaking about the divider between fresh and salt water, but did not mention it when speaking about the divider between the two seas?

Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from what is found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a “pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers.”3 This partition (zone of separation) has a different salinity from the fresh water and from



This information has been discovered only recently, using advanced equipment to measure temperature, salinity, density, oxygen dissolubility, etc. The human eye cannot see the difference between the two seas that meet, rather the two seas appear to us as one homogeneous sea. Likewise, the human eye cannot see the division of water in estuaries into the three kinds: fresh water, salt water, and the partition (zone of separation).


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Old 08-30-2012, 10:57 PM #11
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You do realize that the seas mix, right? There is no actual barrier between the two oceans nor between river water and the ocean. It fades into brackish and then salt water.
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:35 PM #12
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"Say, [O Muhammad], 'Travel through the land and observe how He began creation. Then Allah will produce the final creation. Indeed Allah, over all things, is competent.'" [Qur'an 29:20]

Do you think that this verse discourages attempts to understand how life on our earth/universe arose, or encourages it?
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Old 08-31-2012, 04:13 PM #13
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I would hope it inspires people to observe it. Too bad the He part clouds many to assume it's He and nothing else.
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Old 08-31-2012, 08:00 PM #14
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Well, it is He and nothing else....how He has done it is for us to discover
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Old 08-31-2012, 09:20 PM #15
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Yeah but he exists in your mind and instead of provoking people to investigate more he just becomes a copout.
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:49 AM #16
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Why don't you just make like a Muslim OT thread instead of spamming the forum with random passages?
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:34 PM #17
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Yeah but he exists in your mind and instead of provoking people to investigate more he just becomes a copout.
So people who probably don't have the interest or intellect to investigate any further just call it quits and say God did it? Ok? What's the problem? That happens with everything. The issue is whether or not science/evolution conflicts with Islam. Like I already said, not many Muslim intellectuals deny evolution or say it contradicts Islam. So where's the conflict?
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:49 PM #18
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So people who probably don't have the interest or intellect to investigate any further just call it quits and say God did it? Ok? What's the problem? That happens with everything. The issue is whether or not science/evolution conflicts with Islam. Like I already said, not many Muslim intellectuals deny evolution or say it contradicts Islam. So where's the conflict?
You answered yourself.
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:52 PM #19
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But regardless if they believed in God or not, they don't have the intellect or interest to even care. So I see no issue. I have many friends who believe in God who aren't going to suddenly become evolutionary biologists if they abandon their faith. I also have friends who don't believe in God who are dumb as bricks and don't give a **** where humans came from.

I think you're using religion (in this case Islam) as a scapegoat for a perceived lack of scientific advancement, while I'm just blaming people themselves.
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:52 PM #20
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religion comes from a book, science comes from understanding the natural world as it actually is. Science never aims to explain religion, and religion cannot understand science. Religion came from man, who wrote a book, to claim social control over the people who do not understand.
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:58 PM #21
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But regardless if they believed in God or not, they don't have the intellect or interest to even care. So I see no issue. I have many friends who believe in God who aren't going to suddenly become evolutionary biologists if they abandon their faith. I also have friends who don't believe in God who are dumb as bricks and don't give a **** where humans came from.

I think you're using religion (in this case Islam) as a scapegoat for a perceived lack of scientific advancement, while I'm just blaming people themselves.
As you've said it yourself, religion is a copout. That's the problem, it's a huge block of power for those who have no interest in understanding the world around us because it's easier to attribute it to god.
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