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Old 07-26-2012, 02:04 PM #43
The Inflicted
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Originally Posted by Drex17 View Post
no.

and how is it absurd?

now I'm curious, what's your thoughts on high end triggers which allow this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...nHsMVKw7o&NR=1
Looking a this and the Akins device, it's become clear to me that there's actually a real need for the ATF to have some measure of arbitrary authority. Just like the NPPL's semi-only rules in tournament paintball in the early and mid 2000s, there is a real financial incentive for people like Akins to build technical loopholes that conform to the letter of the law but ignore its spirit.
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:18 PM #44
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The ATF make "rulings" that are as good as law, with no real guidelines. They can also rescind it at any time. See what happened to the akins accelerator. They allowed him to sell his product for a short time, then changed their minds, ruining Bill Akins financially.
what scares me the most about the akins story is the ATF got recorders of all sales made so they could go knocking on peoples' doors...talk about a ****ty move. Pretty much by signing a piece of paper you are making thousands of people criminals without their knowledge.
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:26 PM #45
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Originally Posted by The Inflicted View Post
Looking a this and the Akins device, it's become clear to me that there's actually a real need for the ATF to have some measure of arbitrary authority. Just like the NPPL's semi-only rules in tournament paintball in the early and mid 2000s, there is a real financial incentive for people like Akins to build technical loopholes that conform to the letter of the law but ignore its spirit.
Right, but the point you are missing is that these devices must be sent to the BATFE technology branch for testing prior to sale. They will then make a judgment on the legality of the device. In the case of both of these items they ruled them legal, but for Akins they changed their mind later.

They also prohibited the turning of a rifle to a pistol and back again. This would have ruined Thompson Center, who build convertible rifles/pistols. They took the BATFE to court and won, but the agency claimed that the ruling of the court case applied specifically to Thompson Center and no one else, which is ridiculous.
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:28 PM #46
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what scares me the most about the akins story is the ATF got recorders of all sales made so they could go knocking on peoples' doors...talk about a ****ty move. Pretty much by signing a piece of paper you are making thousands of people criminals without their knowledge.
I don't think that's accurate.
Under every applicable statute I know of, you can't be convicted of unknowingly possessing a machine-gun, and anyone who purchased an Akins mechanism with the understanding that the ATF had ruled it was not a machine gun and was unaware of the reversal would have a valid defense.
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:35 PM #47
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24 our of every 25 guns is used for self defense, NOT crime...

THAT is the statistical evidence of guns being used as self defense vs. guns used in a crime...

And why would liberals want to take away guns? How has it worked in the murder capital of the world?... Oh yeah, don't look at the actual statistics, lets find something we can cherry pick and lay blame so we can get rid of guns.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...ense-Not-Crime


Oh and why did the other major shooting in Aurora go unnoticed?

That's right, because a CCW carrier STOPPED the killer... Weird since there were tons of people there and all that gunfire didn't kill innocent people.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews...-other-ignored

Oh yeah, that shooting didn't fit the liberal narrative, so it wasn't publicized...
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:05 PM #48
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How in the hell are these things not FFL-restricted yet?

If the ATF weren't so busy shredding documents about whatever it was they were up to with the FBI on the Arizona boarder maybe they could get these things banned.
why should it be restricted?
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:24 PM #49
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For the same reasons that fully-automatic weapons are restricted.
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:26 PM #50
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For the same reasons that fully-automatic weapons are restricted.
why should those be restricted
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:32 PM #51
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Because the danger posed to the public by the unlawful use of automatic weapons by persons not sufficiently screened outweighs the restriction of Second Amendment rights necessitated by the licensing scheme.
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:39 PM #52
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Because the danger posed to the public by the unlawful use of automatic weapons by persons not sufficiently screened outweighs the restriction of Second Amendment rights necessitated by the licensing scheme.
dangers? why don't you go ask your parents how many school shootings or any sort of other massacres happened with a fully automatic weapon when they were growing up....that's before 1986 when they were legal.
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:52 PM #53
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dangers? why don't you go ask your parents how many school shootings or any sort of other massacres happened with a fully automatic weapon when they were growing up....that's before 1986 when they were legal.
I'm not sure I follow your argument.

Are you saying that the definition of prohibited weapons is not expansive enough, and that it should be expanded to cover all weapons used in mass shootings? Or are you arguing that in order for a weapon to present a danger it must have been used in a mass shooting in the past, if not multiple times?
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:01 PM #54
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I'm not sure I follow your argument.

Are you saying that the definition of prohibited weapons is not expansive enough, and that it should be expanded to cover all weapons used in mass shootings? Or are you arguing that in order for a weapon to present a danger it must have been used in a mass shooting in the past, if not multiple times?
i'm saying that the ban on fully automatic weapons in 86 was bull****...just like the AWB was in '94. These weapons aren't even in the top 5 of weapons used in violent crimes. It's a bunch of laws labeling items on looks alone....the scary factor.

Guess what... the hollywood shootout guys used illegally modified fully automatic ak 47s, and illegal 75 round drum mags, which is stupidly easy to do so the '86 ban does little to stop criminals, but the point still holds true...these weapons are hardly ever used in violent crimes

oh and by the way....only 2 people died during the hollywood shootout, the 2 gunmen. Which speaks to the awesome accuracy accomplished when using full auto
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:58 PM #55
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Meh, the right for free speech should be screened and licensed.
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Old 07-26-2012, 05:38 PM #56
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Meh, the right for free speech should be screened and licensed.
This disgusts me. How can people like you be so vehemently opposed to gun control and yet you're in favor of suppressing the first amendment rights of Americans.



How ****ing hard it is to be in favor of both?
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Old 07-27-2012, 02:18 PM #57
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I don't think you interpreted that in the right way...
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:46 PM #58
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dangers? why don't you go ask your parents how many school shootings or any sort of other massacres happened with a fully automatic weapon when they were growing up....that's before 1986 when they were legal.
Uhmmm... You do realise that fully automatic weapons were restricred by the National Firearms act of 1936, not '86.

Second, America of 1936 looks nothing like the America of 2012 so you can't compare them.
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Old 07-27-2012, 04:52 PM #59
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This disgusts me. How can people like you be so vehemently opposed to gun control and yet you're in favor of suppressing the first amendment rights of Americans.



How ****ing hard it is to be in favor of both?
Dude, he was being sarcastic. He's a staunch supporter of the 1st Amendment!
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:59 AM #60
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yeah now i need to go pick up a ssak slide fire stock



now you can see why you need 75 rounds

I love how in the 2nd vid the guy looks stoned and he has dirty white man dreads.

Total hippie.
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:19 PM #61
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Old 08-27-2012, 04:11 PM #62
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Wouldn't it be pretty easy to figure out who the call would be.
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Old 08-27-2012, 04:20 PM #63
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Uhmmm... You do realise that fully automatic weapons were restricred by the National Firearms act of 1936, not '86.

Second, America of 1936 looks nothing like the America of 2012 so you can't compare them.
Also, automatic weapons were used in a lot of crimes prior to 1936. Sooo yeah.
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