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Old 07-25-2012, 12:20 AM #1
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What happened?

First off, I dont intend this post to be rude or directed towards anyone in particular.

Back in 2005 and 2006 I played on a team called Pain Inc Black before and during my first year of college and we played Novice; this was obviously back before the divisionals came. Anyway, I remember that in rookie there were probably over 60 teams at each event and somewhere around like 40 or 50 at each event in the novice division.

Now I understand that the economy isnt what it used to be, but what in the hell happened? I am thinking of getting back into the sport and out of curiousity I went to the APPA website to look at recent CFOA events and I am seeing like 8 to 15 teams per division?
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:33 AM #2
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Too many sandbaggers in lower divisions. not to mention too many divisions.
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:08 AM #3
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too many divisions for a regional series and a lot of teams went on to play PSP. Other than that people just went broke
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:38 AM #4
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too many divisions for a regional series and a lot of teams went on to play PSP. Other than that people just went broke


It is definitely hard for a lot of lower division teams to get the funds together for tournaments. When entry is $500/event, and you will probably still need another $200-$300 worth of paint, it can get pricey fast for people who don't have (really good) sponsors.
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:04 PM #5
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It is definitely hard for a lot of lower division teams to get the funds together for tournaments. When entry is $500/event, and you will probably still need another $200-$300 worth of paint, it can get pricey fast for people who don't have (really good) sponsors.
I don't believe the division has anything to do with costs.

I don't believe I've spent more than $125 for any CFOA event I've played this year. My only sponsors are Paintball Central and Seventh Element. Neither offset any tournament costs for me.

After speaking to and overhearing players- the problem (well, the D3 problem) seems to be they don't have any desire to move up in rank. I have heard players from some of the stronger teams say "I'm going to stay D4 as long as I possibly can."

Players are simply afraid of competition in this region. Teams would rather sit comfortably in the lower divisions. It's humorous to me that the 2nd place D3 team (and the team to beat that day) at Palmetto Open was a throw together of guys who haven't played to compete in years and years. Weaksauce teams and players who practice together weekend after weekend, who prefer to sandbag in lower divisions instead of bumping up to compete... afraid to play a throw together team who probably hasn't practiced in 10 years (and never as a team).

As for the lower number of teams in D4-D5, I would fault the local paintball community for that. I'm tired of hearing "the economy." I am in no way "well off" and make it happen.

I blame the community and fields. Players, teams, and fields do a piss poor job at promoting the series (and developing teams) in my opinion. Teams/players will go "practice" at a field and just beat up on newer players. Teams/players do a poor job at taking newer players and developing them.
Fields make zero effort to field a team in every division.

I've played at many fields around the Carolinas. There are a lot of "speedball" players out there. It's extremely frustrating when you look at the APPA Event info and only see a handful of teams signing up.

tldr? summary- Players in the Carolinas are a bunch of cry baby wankers who don't care to get any better, talk a big game, and are generally afraid of competition. I blame participation trophies in little leagues. I also blame Daniel Combs.
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:29 PM #6
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I also blame Daniel Combs.
...this made me lol
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:02 PM #7
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I don't believe the division has anything to do with costs.

I don't believe I've spent more than $125 for any CFOA event I've played this year. My only sponsors are Paintball Central and Seventh Element. Neither offset any tournament costs for me.

After speaking to and overhearing players- the problem (well, the D3 problem) seems to be they don't have any desire to move up in rank. I have heard players from some of the stronger teams say "I'm going to stay D4 as long as I possibly can."

Players are simply afraid of competition in this region. Teams would rather sit comfortably in the lower divisions. It's humorous to me that the 2nd place D3 team (and the team to beat that day) at Palmetto Open was a throw together of guys who haven't played to compete in years and years. Weaksauce teams and players who practice together weekend after weekend, who prefer to sandbag in lower divisions instead of bumping up to compete... afraid to play a throw together team who probably hasn't practiced in 10 years (and never as a team).

As for the lower number of teams in D4-D5, I would fault the local paintball community for that. I'm tired of hearing "the economy." I am in no way "well off" and make it happen.

I blame the community and fields. Players, teams, and fields do a piss poor job at promoting the series (and developing teams) in my opinion. Teams/players will go "practice" at a field and just beat up on newer players. Teams/players do a poor job at taking newer players and developing them.
Fields make zero effort to field a team in every division.

I've played at many fields around the Carolinas. There are a lot of "speedball" players out there. It's extremely frustrating when you look at the APPA Event info and only see a handful of teams signing up.

tldr? summary- Players in the Carolinas are a bunch of cry baby wankers who don't care to get any better, talk a big game, and are generally afraid of competition. I blame participation trophies in little leagues. I also blame Daniel Combs.
This guy is my hero.

I love to play these tournaments. I look forward to the competition of D4 every tournament I play in (I am ranked APPA beginner). I only play with other ballers who want to get better and play the best. We need more DEDICATED players as well. I see a lot of "one and done" players who play one event then say it was to hard and give up.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:03 PM #8
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I agree with ombres 100%. It is not just up to the CFOA to promote the series, it also rests on the backs of every single player and field that participates in hosting the series. Be an ambassador for the sport, and more people will want to compete. It starts with 3-man. Let's try to make next season (and the rest of this one) one for the books!
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:09 AM #9
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Ombres - 3 out of 6 of the players on my team (Hate Squad) did play as teammates about 4-5 years ago on Dark Carnival. I get what you are saying, but not sure why its humorous. Most of our team was top level D2-D3 players in our hay day. Tournament paintball is like riding a bike, you never really lose it unless your conditioning changes drastically. It only takes a game or two to get back adjusted, at least that's my philosophy. We just wanted to prove that the old guys still got it, somewhat, lol. I had several games myself where I was shooting 2-3 a game. Those doritos were crucial! We fell short of our goal though. The goal was to win. Oh well. Next time.

We have practiced 1 time in 5 years and felt very comfortable together this tournament.

We are hoping to have at least 4 teams for the Greensboro event. I know us and Upstate Army want to play. We need 2 more commitments or we don't even get to play. It's sad really. We are thinking about playing a GFOA, just so we can play, not because we want to. The "Open" division in GFOA pulls 7+ teams per event.
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:11 AM #10
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I agree with ombres 100%. It is not just up to the CFOA to promote the series, it also rests on the backs of every single player and field that participates in hosting the series. Be an ambassador for the sport, and more people will want to compete. It starts with 3-man. Let's try to make next season (and the rest of this one) one for the books!
I personally did what I could to solicit enough teams to even have the D3 division in Greenville.

And, I put on the Top Gun, which was a huge success.

I miss the days where CFOA needed 2 fulls days to finish because so many teams where playing.

See you in Maryland!
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:14 AM #11
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Ombres - 3 out of 6 of the players on my team (Hate Squad) did play as teammates about 4-5 years ago on Dark Carnival. I get what you are saying, but not sure why its humorous. Most of our team was top level D2-D3 players in our hay day. Tournament paintball is like riding a bike, you never really lose it unless your conditioning changes drastically. It only takes a game or two to get back adjusted, at least that's my philosophy. We just wanted to prove that the old guys still got it, somewhat, lol. I had several games myself where I was shooting 2-3 a game. Those doritos were crucial! We fell short of our goal though. The goal was to win. Oh well. Next time.

We have practiced 1 time in 5 years and felt very comfortable together this tournament.

We are hoping to have at least 4 teams for the Greensboro event. I know us and Upstate Army want to play. We need 2 more commitments or we don't even get to play. It's sad really. We are thinking about playing a GFOA, just so we can play, not because we want to. The "Open" division in GFOA pulls 7+ teams per event.

It's humorous because established teams have been sitting in the lower ranks for years and are afraid to compete against a throw together team.

I think you misread my point. It was't that you guys didn't play well or aren't good players- you guys were THE strongest team most of the day I think. My point is that you threw together a team to play and compete when teams who have been together for quite a while won't do so. I hope to see you guys play again- if not this season, next.
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Old 07-28-2012, 11:30 AM #12
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The sad thing is, the first two events of the season the d3 division was strong.

And while I know that statement couldn't have been aimed at EVERY player in the Carolinas about us being scared to bump up to a higher division, there are a few of us left that will step up whenever the opportunity arises.

I do agree with Ombres point about it not being the economy simply people staying in the lower divisions because it is easier. At the same time though some of those established teams have been getting crushed in d4 this year by a group of old school players who got reclassed. It happens in the best of the tournament series so its not really them being scared just not realizing how long some of the top players and teams have been around.

Charles, Sign me up for whenever you guys want to play. d3, d2, d1 or whatever....I aint skeered!
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Old 07-28-2012, 11:49 AM #13
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I don't believe the division has anything to do with costs.

I don't believe I've spent more than $125 for any CFOA event I've played this year. My only sponsors are Paintball Central and Seventh Element. Neither offset any tournament costs for me.

After speaking to and overhearing players- the problem (well, the D3 problem) seems to be they don't have any desire to move up in rank. I have heard players from some of the stronger teams say "I'm going to stay D4 as long as I possibly can."

Players are simply afraid of competition in this region. Teams would rather sit comfortably in the lower divisions. It's humorous to me that the 2nd place D3 team (and the team to beat that day) at Palmetto Open was a throw together of guys who haven't played to compete in years and years. Weaksauce teams and players who practice together weekend after weekend, who prefer to sandbag in lower divisions instead of bumping up to compete... afraid to play a throw together team who probably hasn't practiced in 10 years (and never as a team).

As for the lower number of teams in D4-D5, I would fault the local paintball community for that. I'm tired of hearing "the economy." I am in no way "well off" and make it happen.

I blame the community and fields. Players, teams, and fields do a piss poor job at promoting the series (and developing teams) in my opinion. Teams/players will go "practice" at a field and just beat up on newer players. Teams/players do a poor job at taking newer players and developing them.
Fields make zero effort to field a team in every division.

I've played at many fields around the Carolinas. There are a lot of "speedball" players out there. It's extremely frustrating when you look at the APPA Event info and only see a handful of teams signing up.

tldr? summary- Players in the Carolinas are a bunch of cry baby wankers who don't care to get any better, talk a big game, and are generally afraid of competition. I blame participation trophies in little leagues. I also blame Daniel Combs.
MIND = BLOWN. You just said what I've been trying to put into words for years haha.

In summary, YOU = HERO haha
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Old 07-28-2012, 11:55 AM #14
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Originally Posted by ombres13 View Post
I don't believe the division has anything to do with costs.

I don't believe I've spent more than $125 for any CFOA event I've played this year. My only sponsors are Paintball Central and Seventh Element. Neither offset any tournament costs for me.

After speaking to and overhearing players- the problem (well, the D3 problem) seems to be they don't have any desire to move up in rank. I have heard players from some of the stronger teams say "I'm going to stay D4 as long as I possibly can."

Players are simply afraid of competition in this region. Teams would rather sit comfortably in the lower divisions. It's humorous to me that the 2nd place D3 team (and the team to beat that day) at Palmetto Open was a throw together of guys who haven't played to compete in years and years. Weaksauce teams and players who practice together weekend after weekend, who prefer to sandbag in lower divisions instead of bumping up to compete... afraid to play a throw together team who probably hasn't practiced in 10 years (and never as a team).

As for the lower number of teams in D4-D5, I would fault the local paintball community for that. I'm tired of hearing "the economy." I am in no way "well off" and make it happen.

I blame the community and fields. Players, teams, and fields do a piss poor job at promoting the series (and developing teams) in my opinion. Teams/players will go "practice" at a field and just beat up on newer players. Teams/players do a poor job at taking newer players and developing them.
Fields make zero effort to field a team in every division.

I've played at many fields around the Carolinas. There are a lot of "speedball" players out there. It's extremely frustrating when you look at the APPA Event info and only see a handful of teams signing up.

tldr? summary- Players in the Carolinas are a bunch of cry baby wankers who don't care to get any better, talk a big game, and are generally afraid of competition. I blame participation trophies in little leagues. I also blame Daniel Combs.
Either they went to play PSP or as you said sit in lower division and try to sandbag but still manage to lose. People are afraid of a little competition. Just remember theres a difference between old school and new school lol.
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Old 07-29-2012, 11:59 AM #15
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:06 PM #16
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Fields make zero effort to field a team in every division.
I like this point a lot. If fields from NC would try to develop their on teams, like factory teams, which used to exist in common place, we'd see more teams competing. I remember people used to talk about "PBC teams," for example, in reference to teams who played out of a certain field. Now, it seems like every team's home field is PBC, and they're all playing D4.

Carolina paintball isn't what it used to be, but that's just because the attitude has changed.

Also, a lot of people will talk about being "classed out" of the CFOA. People want to stay D4 because they can't find teams in D3. Which sounds like a vicious circle, because if your team classed up, guess what? You'd have a place to play. The only reason being D3 classes out out of CFOA is because teams refuse to compete in that division.
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:42 AM #17
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Ombres we def were a throw together team but we got skills ha... the less we care the better we play... and apparently the later we stay up and drink the night before makes us play better too. and really we only have 4 people playing the entire prelims bc i was suckin giant gonads till finals ha... and Charles im def down to start playin more since im bought to be gettin paid again... Sorry again for the giant ball sucking this events ha
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:50 AM #18
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I like this point a lot. If fields from NC would try to develop their on teams, like factory teams, which used to exist in common place, we'd see more teams competing. I remember people used to talk about "PBC teams," for example, in reference to teams who played out of a certain field. Now, it seems like every team's home field is PBC, and they're all playing D4.

Carolina paintball isn't what it used to be, but that's just because the attitude has changed.

Also, a lot of people will talk about being "classed out" of the CFOA. People want to stay D4 because they can't find teams in D3. Which sounds like a vicious circle, because if your team classed up, guess what? You'd have a place to play. The only reason being D3 classes out out of CFOA is because teams refuse to compete in that division.
I can tell you that Border Patrol at leasts plans on sticking together all the way up to D3, it will be a few years before we are there though.

By that time I really hope d3 showing is alot better.
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Old 08-01-2012, 09:48 AM #19
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I agree to some degree....The D3 division has sucked (as for as # of teams) the past few years...some teams may not want to move up to take advantage of sandbagging but I bet a few are afraid they will not be any teams in D3 or like most years you cant play the weekend of tourney because there are not enough teams...
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:45 PM #20
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I think the top 3 d4 teams should be made to move up. this would help prevent sandbagging. and it would bring the number of teams back up..
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:06 AM #21
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I think the top 3 d4 teams should be made to move up. this would help prevent sandbagging. and it would bring the number of teams back up..
That actually did happen this past season. Chaos, crusaders, and postal were the top 3 teams after the TOC. They all got bumped to D3. Chaos is the only team not to fall apart out of those this season. Crusaders D3 fell apart, but then rebuilt a roster for D4. Anyone know what postal is up to?
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