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Old 12-11-2013, 08:48 AM #1
davethewave12321
 
 
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If you want .50 Cal to catch on...

Then someone needs to develop .50 caliber retrofit kits for older markers.

I bet if you cover the basics like old angels, cockers, mags and timmies you will see .50 cal become a more popular option for folks like me who grew up in the sport back in the early 2000's and wanted these types of markers.

This is more than just a suggestion, it is a challenge and a request. Also let me remind you that it's just a matter of time before some young college kid with access to Solid Works designs these kits and sells them independently. Why not beat them to the punch?
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:23 AM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davethewave12321 View Post
Then someone needs to develop .50 caliber retrofit kits for older markers.

I bet if you cover the basics like old angels, cockers, mags and timmies you will see .50 cal become a more popular option for folks like me who grew up in the sport back in the early 2000's and wanted these types of markers.

This is more than just a suggestion, it is a challenge and a request. Also let me remind you that it's just a matter of time before some young college kid with access to Solid Works designs these kits and sells them independently. Why not beat them to the punch?
Planet Eclipse and Bob Long both made conversion kits and they sold only a handful of them. Most college kids with Solid Works don't have the access to the machines needed to make the parts.
I feel that rentals at paintball fields is the best market for .50 cal. That seems to be where they are getting the most traction. As much as I like the older guns there is little to no demand to convert any of them to .50 cal. I play with a 10 year old FreeFlow when I play rec ball and very rarely do I see any other guns of that age when I play. I can't tell you when I last saw an Angel of any age at a commercial paintball field.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:36 PM #3
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Planet Eclipse and Bob Long both made conversion kits and they sold only a handful of them. Most college kids with Solid Works don't have the access to the machines needed to make the parts.
I feel that rentals at paintball fields is the best market for .50 cal. That seems to be where they are getting the most traction. As much as I like the older guns there is little to no demand to convert any of them to .50 cal. I play with a 10 year old FreeFlow when I play rec ball and very rarely do I see any other guns of that age when I play. I can't tell you when I last saw an Angel of any age at a commercial paintball field.
50 caliber for the fields is doing very well and growing. You are correct that field owners want a reliable marker. We have been supplying conversion kits for the Tippmanns for a while now and its not just the US, its around the world, We just got an order from Israel for kits where 50 caliber is very popular.
The other popular spot for 50 caliber is Zombie hunting, with the lower impact, Haunts and farmers have been quick to realize .50 cal is easier on the actor!
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:30 AM #4
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Most college kids with Solid Works don't have the access to the machines needed to make the parts.

If you truly believe this, then you are hilariously mistaken.

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As much as I like the older guns there is little to no demand to convert any of them to .50 cal.
May I ask what evidence you have to support this particular claim? Where is your case study? Did you take a poll? what was your sample size?

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Old 12-12-2013, 11:07 AM #5
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Originally Posted by davethewave12321 View Post


May I ask what evidence you have to support this particular claim? Where is your case study? Did you take a poll? what was your sample size?
We have been running 50 cal at our field for over a year, have had over 15,000 people shoot 50's here, and not one has asked if we can convert an old gun into 50. So, sample size... 15,000 - number of requests... 0. Seems pretty straight forward.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:20 AM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davethewave12321 View Post
If you truly believe this, then you are hilariously mistaken. May I ask what evidence you have to support this particular claim? Where is your case study? Did you take a poll? what was your sample size?
So you are telling me that the average college student can afford the machines and materials needed to make a quality .50 cal conversion in mass for the guns you mentioned above? .50 cal has been out for years now and we have yet to see a college kids make a kit. Perhaps because a market does not exist?
Have I taken a poll? No. Two major players in the industry have taken a poll and even spent the money to make conversions. Ask them what the response was to .50 conversion kits. I can tell you they are no longer actively marketing or selling them. They didn't stop selling them because they made too much money on them. Also, please see Larry's response above.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:48 AM #7
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Originally Posted by GatSplat View Post
We have been running 50 cal at our field for over a year, have had over 15,000 people shoot 50's here, and not one has asked if we can convert an old gun into 50. So, sample size... 15,000 - number of requests... 0. Seems pretty straight forward.
Excuse me sir/ma'am, I really am not trying to be disrespectful. I am just very tired of people making unfounded claims. I take exception to your quote: specifically regarding your sample size claim. You see, it simply does not suffice to claim that no one wants a conversion kit because no one has asked for one.

bottom line:
You have not actually polled anyone, your sample size is 0 people.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:54 AM #8
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So you are telling me that the average college student can afford the machines and materials needed to make a quality .50 cal conversion in mass for the guns you mentioned above? .50 cal has been out for years now and we have yet to see a college kids make a kit. Perhaps because a market does not exist?
Have I taken a poll? No. Two major players in the industry have taken a poll and even spent the money to make conversions. Ask them what the response was to .50 conversion kits. I can tell you they are no longer actively marketing or selling them. They didn't stop selling them because they made too much money on them. Also, please see Larry's response above.
I am referring to students attending universities. I am trying to help you. Right now there are several thousand young adults majoring in mechanical engineering at well funded universities around the United States who grew up loving paintball back in the 2000's. My University allows students access to several CNC machines and offers solidworks free of charge for students. Maybe they only have access to these machines to develop prototypes, but that is really all that is needed before sending the work over to china for mass production. Or alternatively, one could spend a few thousand on a 3D printer and produce them.

the point I am trying to make here is that it really is just a matter of time before someone brings these things to the market. Getting mad about it and making excuses for not developing them now just makes you guys appear to be jaded pretentious *****.

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Old 12-12-2013, 12:13 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davethewave12321 View Post
I am referring to students attending universities. I am trying to help you. Right now there are several thousand young adults majoring in mechanical engineering at well funded universities around the United States who grew up loving paintball back in the 2000's. My University allows students access to several CNC machines and offers solidworks free of charge for students. Maybe they only have access to these machines to develop prototypes, but that is really all that is needed before sending the work over to china for mass production. Or alternatively, one could spend a few thousand on a 3D printer and produce them. the point I am trying to make here is that it really is just a matter of time before someone brings these things to the market. Getting mad about it and making excuses for not developing them now just makes you guys appear to be jaded pretentious *****.
I am not mad about it at all. I feel that your desire for a .50 cal conversion kit for guns that were produced over 10 years ago is one that is not shared enough people to make it at all feasible for any manufacturer with overhead to consider doing. You are correct, I am sure there are hundreds of members just on PBnation with the skill and equipment to do it. Few if any have because it silly. Do you have an idea what a 3D printer with the ability to print metal or hardened production quality ABS that could stand up to being used in a paintball gun cost? I do, I sell then for a living. 100k and up. If this is something you are that passionate about I say do it. Make a kit for all the old guns you like, sell them and prove me wrong. I am just not sure you know what the true cost is for the manufactures you are challenging to do it.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:25 PM #10
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or you could just TAKE A POLL and find out for yourself.

Also, I work with 3D printers myself on a daily and I know exactly what they can do. Also let me point out that these kits can probably be made relatively easily once a proper injection mold has been made.

bottom line:
You are making it seem as though prototyping and developmental cost as astronomical when in fact modern manufacturing techniques employed in the last 5 years have made mass production very affordable.

I think the real issue here is that you dont want to be the guy cutting everyone's throat selling retrofit kits which would effectively nullify a portion of the .50 cal rental market that you are so proud of. I'm giving you fair warning, someone like myself is going to come along and beat you to the punch.

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Old 12-12-2013, 12:37 PM #11
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A poll is worth nothing... People love saying, "I'd love to see... blah..." That is way different than reaching in your wallet. There is no reason to covert an old gun to 50. Why not just use the old gun? The 50 market is for kids 6-12 years old.. They don't care about guns that were popular before they were born.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:12 PM #12
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davethewave12321, I see that you joined PBNation in Nov., 2009. Maybe you missed the 50 cal debate that went on here (and many other paintball related forums) earlier that year. If you go back and browse through those posts, you will see that many of the people who were most passionate about squashing 50 cal and staying with 68 cal were players who actually use older markers as their main instrument of play. To say there is no market for old marker 50 cal conversion kits would be false. However to assume that there is a market that would be worthwhile pursuing is presumptuous. It certainly isn't anything I would spend a lot of resources on.
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:40 PM #13
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GatSplat it is obvious that you never went to college. A poll is a very powerful data collecting device. Maybe you just lack the knowledge to interpret the data.

And Horizon, your response addressed my concerns, and made valid points. Bravo to you.
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:41 PM #14
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I think we have two different viewpoints here. You are correct, the development and prototype costs would be pretty cheap compared to the overall cost of making 3-4 different kits for guns that 12-15 years old. It’s the cost of adding another sku to a product line, machine time and material, inventory, marketing, sales staff ext that make this unfeasible. History has shown us that not enough people have interest in these kits to make it worth the risk.
I don’t have a dog in the .50 cal fight. But I feel that Larry and Reiner are taking the right approach in how they are marketing .50 cal.

You have given me fair warning about beating me to the punch. No warning is needed for me, I don’t see a viable market in what you are asking for to make exploring it worth the time and money.
If you do, great! I am all for people trying to expand paintball and bring new exciting products to market. I you can make it work, I will be happy to hear you tell me “I told you so.”
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:50 PM #15
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GatSplat it is obvious that you never went to college. A poll is a very powerful data collecting device. Maybe you just lack the knowledge to interpret the data.
Dude.. You are pretty funny... Extremely misguided... but funny.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:11 PM #16
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Dude.. You are pretty funny... Extremely misguided... but funny.
This is what we are dealing with gentlemen.
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...992&highlight=

After reading this I am done with this conversation.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:17 PM #17
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Attacking my character to avoid the issues at hand is appropriate for a fifth grader... or a D.C. politician. I am allowed to have an opinion on issues that effect our sport. Im not going to get into smartparts, but you guys seem like career hardened, professional, work deflectors.

Carl: "hey tim, this guy wants us to make adapter kits."
Tim: "What? thats cray cray, nobody wants on of those"
Carl: "but tim, to be truthful we havn't really asked anyone, who are we to assume what the players want?"
Tim: "shut up carl, if we give in to this sort of request we'll be swamped with work! do you know what work leads to carl? lots and lots of..."
Carl: "money?"
Tim: "no, carl, it leads to fewer hours xbox gaming, and potato chip eating."

Meanwhile... At the University:
Dave: "Dude, are these guys serious? Its like they are inviting me to fill the niche market."
Roy: "Bro, once finals are over we should play around with solid works for fun, I bet it would only take a few minutes to get the concept art going, and maybe a few hours here and there to design the parts in the cad program."
Dave: "this will be cool. probably not a whole lot of money will come out of this, but then again this is like a labor of love, and its not like we have to kill ourselves bringing these to the market, we get to set out own time table because apparently we don't have any competition."
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:54 PM #18
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I wasn't aware that I attacked your character. Although I did read that you called me and a few other pretentious d-bags in the angel forum. You are allowed to offer your opinion. Just as I am allowed to offer mine. History has shown that others do not share your opinion. Planet Eclipse and Bob Long both made kits, both are no longer doing so. Maybe they should have done a poll before they spent the money....
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:23 PM #19
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Dave: "this will be cool. probably not a whole lot of money will come out of this, but then again this is like a labor of love, and its not like we have to kill ourselves bringing these to the market, we get to set out own time table because apparently we don't have any competition."
What?!?! The title of this thread is about getting 50 cal to catch on... If this is the secret to that... of course you'll make money..

go for it! You show us! When you make a bunch of money, you can lend me some so I can go to college.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:08 PM #20
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When you make a bunch of money, you can lend me some so I can go to college.
lmao at Larry you can be very funny at times.

I would trade a college education any day for a retail store doing 5+ million in sales + a cash cow indoor field in the middle of a 3+ million population city.

.50 cal has its place in the rental market grooming younger players to enter with the bigger boys later in life.
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Old 12-13-2013, 02:58 PM #21
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Id say field as well....start from the ground up...the cost of paint vs .68 is alot better imho as well!
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