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Old 07-18-2012, 05:23 PM #1
griffan2
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(derp) losing velocity at high fire rates.

lpr isnt helping much when i turn it out. is that a dwell thing? right now its at 11.5 with my tadao oled. fresh brand new battery. 2010 indy btw. normaly i dotn mess with my gun but i was in the back yard today and shot a long string and about 10 shots into it i noticed the balls drop about 8 feet short of what it was normaly shooting at. just turned dwell to 12. no help then up to 14. no help


cleaned and relubed the lpr, all in good shape. so when shooting i bump up the lpr, after it maxes out it suddenly drops off at about 2 turns out of flush. dwell at 14, lpr as high as i could get it, still dropping off at about 15 bps

4 pods took 2500 lbs our of my 68 which is a tiny bit low isnt it? 7.5 pods?

(update)

after a bit more blindly fiddling, at 12 dwell and the lpr at whatever in the heck its set at, the issue is better but not gone.

Last edited by griffan2 : 07-18-2012 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 07-18-2012, 05:25 PM #2
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Try bump ur dwell up to 12 to 14 to see if that help
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Old 07-18-2012, 05:33 PM #3
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k ill crank it up and see what happens. but thats normaly a dwell thing or is that indeed just the lpr that needs to come up? at this point when i raise the lpr the velocity doesnt change at all nor does the gun get much more jumpy. floating at about 279-284 with spikes at 291 and on the low end of the stream about 220
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Old 07-18-2012, 05:37 PM #4
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dwell at 14. no help, but the gun sounded a little diferent and i could tell that the sweep was more effective.
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Old 07-18-2012, 06:58 PM #5
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Could it be one of the regs
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Old 07-18-2012, 07:22 PM #6
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ill check the inline. but the lpr is perfect
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:13 PM #7
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with half a damn roll of teflon tape i got the reg to stop leaking out of all 3 spots on the bottoms after i took it off the gun, shims are clean. i didnt bother relubing it, its all in good shape. but that thing where the lpr caps out and then drops kinda wierds me out.
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:07 PM #8
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Years ago Angel (when talking with the leagues about legal and illegal ramping) admitted that they had a built in higher dwell for higher rates of fire.
Recharging is harder the faster you shoot. So higher LPR and higher dwell gets you more even shooting. It seems that maybe you were riding the line a bit

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with half a damn roll of teflon tape i got the reg to stop leaking out of all 3 spots on the bottoms after i took it off the gun, shims are clean. i didnt bother relubing it, its all in good shape. but that thing where the lpr caps out and then drops kinda wierds me out.
Players Do NO take the set screws out of the bottom - he is lucky he didn't strip one and then I have to drill out the set screw and if the drill breaks then the reg can't be fixed! We Locktite them in - as Teflon tape can shred and get into the solenoid.


as to the velocity changes swap out the reg AND try a different chrono -
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Old 07-20-2012, 01:53 PM #9
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I'd clean and lube the HPR even if it looks good. Put in a totally different battery, even if that one seems ok. Make sure your asa knob isn't turned in too far or it will slow the recharge rate. You can also try it with another tank if you have one handy. Make sure the two springs in the LPR are in the proper order. They look the same but they aren't. Recheck the gun for leaks with a sray bottle of water and dish soap.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:06 PM #10
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Make sure your asa knob isn't turned in too far or it will slow the recharge rate. You can also try it with another tank if you have one handy.
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:16 AM #11
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Quote:
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Players Do NO take the set screws out of the bottom - he is lucky he didn't strip one and then I have to drill out the set screw and if the drill breaks then the reg can't be fixed! We Locktite them in - as Teflon tape can shred and get into the solenoid.
should i take the screws out and strip out all the tefflon, at that point is it just lock tight untill it stops leaking?

it seems to be shooting better now that i changed tanks, the pro reg was on the first one and a regular ninja is on the one i have on it now. supposed to be the same output but i have a call into ray to see whats up. however the dwell has been raised and now the lpr is another full turn above what it was but it doesnt have any more kick than it had. i did the raise the lpr uintill it chronoed without going up, then up another half turn, but i had to put another 3/4 turn after that to get the drop-off to even out.

im working the field tomorrow so ill bring both tanks and a couple of different regs to try out.
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:37 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffan2 View Post
should i take the screws out and strip out all the tefflon, at that point is it just lock tight untill it stops leaking?
I's leave them alone - if you strip out the screws you aren't going to be happy - I was just saying that it din' make much sense to take them out. No improvement to be had.

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the pro reg was on the first one and a regular ninja is on the one i have on it now. supposed to be the same output.... the dwell has been raised and now the lpr is another full turn above what it was but it doesnt have any more kick ... i had to put another 3/4 turn after that to get the drop-off to even out.
If you didn't increase the kick then why not have it higher - a 3/4 turn is maybe 10 psi higher. Maybe you have a 11 rammer - which weigh less - they need a bit more LPR to make up for the lower weight.
It takes a certain amount of force to fully open the pin - so the pin (and the air behind it) is "eating" the energy and it's not becoming kick.
ND's can shoot at just above 60 psi and don't have much kick at all at 75 psi.
Invasions need about 70 psi, and have a Rammer that is between the 10 and 11 ND rammer weight.
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:50 AM #13
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Quote:
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I's leave them alone - if you strip out the screws you aren't going to be happy - I was just saying that it din' make much sense to take them out. No improvement to be had.
yeah, i didnt want to but it was a pretty bad leak out of both of em. ill leave em where they are
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If you didn't increase the kick then why not have it higher - a 3/4 turn is maybe 10 psi higher. Maybe you have a 11 rammer - which weigh less - they need a bit more LPR to make up for the lower weight.
It takes a certain amount of force to fully open the pin - so the pin (and the air behind it) is "eating" the energy and it's not becoming kick.
ND's can shoot at just above 60 psi and don't have much kick at all at 75 psi.
Invasions need about 70 psi, and have a Rammer that is between the 10 and 11 ND rammer weight.
thats what i was feeling, that itd be about 10 pounds more than what it was when i had my ROF capped at 12.5. as for the asa/bottle issue, i went ahead and swapped out the pins on my bottle reg to a shorter one so the open point is now a tiny bit further into the turn than it was, hopefully that will solve that issue if it was indeed the problem. do you recommend me to go through the HPR with all new lube? i think i did that just before HB of this year so i dont imagine there would be any need to.
i love feeling a gun get broken in
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:20 AM #14
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do you recommend me to go through the HPR with all new lube? i think i did that just before HB of this year so i dont imagine there would be any need to.
Not really, once every year or two is plenty, won't hut it but won't help either.
But mixing up the shim stack will completely mess it up, so less can be more
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Old 07-21-2012, 11:03 PM #15
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after switching out the pin on the tank to a shorter one (huge thanks to marty at ninja for that) and a bit more messing with the lpr i THINK i have it where it needs to be, shot well today but the test will be tomorrow with my practice with impact and uprising haha.
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Old 07-22-2012, 01:36 PM #16
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Good stuff. Just so you know......you don't have to screw your asa knob in all the way. Go in until you hear the gun charge up....then maybe one more turn is all you should need. Short pin or long pin.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:03 PM #17
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my ocd says otherwise :p
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:26 PM #18
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you know, my asa might be to tight when i air the marker up. i air it up and keep going until it dosnt want to turn anymore. i dont force it.. if i had air, id check it to see when it actually airs up and how much more it has left.

something in my head tells me that not turning it in all the way might cause it to turn its self out
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:16 PM #19
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asa knob

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you know, my asa might be to tight when i air the marker up. i air it up and keep going until it dosnt want to turn anymore. i dont force it.. if i had air, id check it to see when it actually airs up and how much more it has left.

something in my head tells me that not turning it in all the way might cause it to turn its self out
Once the knob is under pressure from the air in the tank it should hold pretty firm. I've never had any problems with my air flow turning off on me. Or since your gun works fine all the way in, just keep doing that
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:46 PM #20
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I tried that today ^

my myth reg tends to require me to turn the knob all the way in. i dont have to crank it tight but it wont leal until i have it all the way.

Same goes for my ninja



Now today i too had problems with shootdown. not sure what it was from. Im pretty sure my myth reg is infact the culprit but i want to make sure i have everything covered.


Will having the lpr out to far cause shootdown? i dont think i had it set far enough out to where the adjustment screw would no longer be contracting the piston.. not that that would even matter

I switched to my backup until the end of the tourny. Then i grabbed a ninja tank set for LP and it seemed to fix the shootdown problem but i also lowered the lpr a bit before hand... I think I was still getting some shootdown but im not sure how well the crono reads at 15bps lol. My ropes looked worlds better.

also, is this the right order for the lpr springs?



thats the only way they fit but im looking at the manual and it shows the bigger spring sitting on the adjustment screw side.. not the lpr body side. if that makes sense


edit: history on the myth reg. Its almost 4 years old.. maybe 5. Its a myth vs one and it has always worked well with any marker i put it on. Today was the first time i have ever experienced shootdown and i have not tried this tank on a different gun yet. I think ill just jump the gun and get a ninja regulator for my current tank.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:29 AM #21
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My guess is that it was the myth reg. They're known for having issues. If you had yours for 4 years you had a good run lol. You could always rebuild it if you can find parts.

That's the proper spring order.
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