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Old 07-14-2014, 10:08 PM #1
creyes
 
 
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Location: Culver City, CA
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Specific goals - getting started/scheduling help

Hi everyone, I'm going to be thorough so please bear with me...

History
I had been an endurance athlete (triathlete) for the last 6 years. Had an injury 4-5 months ago and had some coaching problems and have decided to take a break from endurance sports.
My nutrition was primarily simple carbs and veggies - not a lot of protein. I was around 5'11'' 155lbs.

Present
I slumped. Kept the same diet and didn't exercise a lot. Put on a ton of weight. A month ago I started getting back in running shape. My 5k is still ~16 mid/low depending on the day. But outside of some leg power from cycling I have essentially no practical strength. Today, 5'11'' 167lbs 19% body fat (fitness scale, accuracy is questionable).

Goals
I'd like to be 175-180lbs @ 9-10% bf. Defined but still being able to run (I'll accept a loss in some time, but I'd like to be able to run a 6 min mile). I've gone a week without grains/legumes/dairy. Focusing on proteins and healthy fats, carbs from veggies/little fruit. Have good whey, am avoiding creatine for now (don't want think the extra pumps are necessary yet), am doing Vitamin C, K2, Grapeseed supplements for now. Have read about and want to try Intermittent Fasting - and have started a pretty basic 4 days a week + 1 cardio routine.

Questions
1) Should my diet priority be to cut out the 8-9% fat first? Emulate a cut phase for a body-builder and then build after? Or do I eat +calories now and know the fat will get burned?

2) My work hours are typically 7 - ~5ish and I'm in data centers a lot so not much flexibility. Ideal IF seems to be eat 12-8pm and fast in between. That's not really possible for me. I feel like IF would particularly help me because my body has been so used to producing insulin constantly that the resistance from fasting would probably increase my sensitivity a good amount. Anyone have good scheduling ideas?

Thanks for reading and I look forward to any advice!
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:27 PM #2
black_angus
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You went through the effort of giving a well though-out post with a decent amount of information, so I'll reciprocate by breaking this all down, piece by piece, and then summarizing my thoughts at the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creyes View Post

History
I had been an endurance athlete (triathlete) for the last 6 years. Had an injury 4-5 months ago and had some coaching problems and have decided to take a break from endurance sports.
My nutrition was primarily simple carbs and veggies - not a lot of protein. I was around 5'11'' 155lbs.


Alright, so we've established a few things here--you're underweight, probably somewhere in the range of skinny to skinny-fat, and need to adjust your diet. You recognize that diet change will be the catalyst here, which is good.

Present
I slumped. Kept the same diet and didn't exercise a lot. Put on a ton of weight. A month ago I started getting back in running shape. My 5k is still ~16 mid/low depending on the day. But outside of some leg power from cycling I have essentially no practical strength. Today, 5'11'' 167lbs 19% body fat (fitness scale, accuracy is questionable).

Well I have no idea if that's a good 5k time, but you seem to know what you're doing in that regard. Are you running as much as you were before? Do you want to? What is "running shape" to you?

Goals
I'd like to be 175-180lbs @ 9-10% bf. Defined but still being able to run (I'll accept a loss in some time, but I'd like to be able to run a 6 min mile). I've gone a week without grains/legumes/dairy. Focusing on proteins and healthy fats, carbs from veggies/little fruit. Have good whey, am avoiding creatine for now (don't want think the extra pumps are necessary yet), am doing Vitamin C, K2, Grapeseed supplements for now. Have read about and want to try Intermittent Fasting - and have started a pretty basic 4 days a week + 1 cardio routine.

Starches are still going to be very important for putting on muscle mass. Eating big will be a chore. Your reasoning for avoiding creatine is off-base--I'm not sure you completely understand what creatine is or how it works in the body.

Questions
1) Should my diet priority be to cut out the 8-9% fat first? Emulate a cut phase for a body-builder and then build after? Or do I eat +calories now and know the fat will get burned?

There are conflicting opinions on this, but I say put on the muscle mass first. Even at your current body composition, you're pretty underweight. Build a strength base with the main lifts and get stronger At first, you should actually be able to put on muscle and decrease fat at the same time, at least to a small extent. After a while, it gets pretty difficult. Put on more muscle and make your body a more efficient machine.

2) My work hours are typically 7 - ~5ish and I'm in data centers a lot so not much flexibility. Ideal IF seems to be eat 12-8pm and fast in between. That's not really possible for me. I feel like IF would particularly help me because my body has been so used to producing insulin constantly that the resistance from fasting would probably increase my sensitivity a good amount. Anyone have good scheduling ideas?

Just focus on hitting good macros and energy balance at first. When you get to the point that nutrient timing is really that important for you, you probably already know a lot more about nutrition than the majority of people.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to any advice!
Don't chase two horses at once. Pick a goal, and go after it like a mother****er. You're going to have to figure out a compromise. Not everybody can be Alex Viada.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:43 AM #3
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Thank you for answering! I'm on my phone but I'll answer a couple of the questions and ask a follow up or two.

1) definitely underweight - need to be to be a competitive runner/cyclist.
2) 5k = 3.1 miles = 5:20ish a mile. Not professional by any means but most people would consider that pretty fast. its important for me to maintain some level of aerobic endurance but I don't need to be that fast. I would like to still run 12-15 miles a week (down from 25ish now) if possible. If it's not I'm willing to put that aside for a while and figure out how I want to balance things at a later date.
3) I'm pretty sure I know what creative does... I believe it causes water absorption that speeds up protein synthesis. I know it works but I also know that a lot of ppl cut it during cut phases because the excess water weight can mess with results. My research on it is not very extensive so I could be wrong.
4) if I'm not going to fast and worry about nutrient timing... Aside from the 30 min after workout rule... What would you suggest my macro distribution look like to maximize my effectiveness at the gym?

Thanks again
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:01 AM #4
black_angus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creyes View Post
3) I'm pretty sure I know what creative does... I believe it causes water absorption that speeds up protein synthesis. I know it works but I also know that a lot of ppl cut it during cut phases because the excess water weight can mess with results. My research on it is not very extensive so I could be wrong.


4) if I'm not going to fast and worry about nutrient timing... Aside from the 30 min after workout rule... What would you suggest my macro distribution look like to maximize my effectiveness at the gym?

Thanks again
No. Review the PCr system of energy metabolism. Creatine is an important molecule for restoring ATP in muscle fibers.

Your macro distribution should look like whatever you have to do to get the right calories in. Whether this is a couple really big meals or six smaller meals, calories in/calories out is going to be THE big determinant of body composition change.
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Old 07-19-2014, 01:41 PM #5
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Thanks a lot! I'm already incorporating some of the key points - not obsessing about timing just making sure I'm eating enough/eating clean and I started Starting Strength. Really quickly if you (or anyone else) doesn't mind, can anyone comment on this article?

Why you shouldn't do starting strength as a beginner

My biggest problem with the article is the lack of scientific research/data - but he seems to have decent anecdotal evidence and I feel like I'm in a similar starting situation as he was (skinny fat)
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