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Old 06-25-2012, 12:28 PM #1
firefoxx04
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inconsistent 09

my indy seems to be more inconsistent than most guns at the field (my vice, my g3, etc)

barrel bore does not seem to matter. i have tried .678, 689 and the stock indy 2pc that i have. Battery always fresh.

when i got the gun last year, i lubed the regs and then left them. i re grease the ram every once and a while but not on a regular basis like i would my g3.

the inconsistency i am talking about is things like 310fps, 285, 295, 265, 292, etc etc.

switch to the g3 and use the same barrel and same paint and i get a tighter consistency.


any ideas? I know the hpr on the indy has some shim added to it. like a thin plastic shim? Im the second owner. the previous owner had to add the shim to fix an issue (cant remember what issue).


other than that, the gun always works, does not leak, and gets awesome efficiency.


oo and also, increasing lpr pressure does not help as much as i would think it should, the gun starts to kick more than an indy usually kicks and the consistency only gets mildly better. i forget where the dwell is set, something tells me its a clock or two above stock setting.
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:35 PM #2
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Send it to jack...for a tuneup and to make sure its got the upgraded hpr piston and lpr springs. It might not if its an early 09.

It could also be time for a new reg seat...best of luck!
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Old 06-25-2012, 06:58 PM #3
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most work i can do my self (regs, ram orings, bla bla. ) i wouldnt want to work on the noid but i doubt that has anything to do with it.

i know the lpr is a replacement unit. i have the original one. the previous owner said the stock 09 lpr had a issue during the first release.

as much as id like to send it to jack to get tuned up, id rather save the cash and time and do it my self.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:05 PM #4
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Check the piston....the updated piston should have large flow holes....if the holes look smaller than they should you need the updated piston.

My guess is its the piston or the reg seat. Not much else to check in an indy.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:30 PM #5
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okay ill report back when i check. it shooots really well during game.. its hard to tell that it has such bad consistency.
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:51 PM #6
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Swap the reg with another gun - if it's better you know where problem is - if not them we need to look elsewhere
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:54 AM #7
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not sure why i didnt think of that.. ill try a bob long hpr.
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:15 PM #8
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bob long reg didnt help much. had to increase lpr a good bit to get decent consistency but it was kicking... so i turned it back down. it has barrel rise but nothing annoying.

i guess my dwell could be playing a part in this. its set high if i remember right... like a click above stock but i havn checked it.
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:53 PM #9
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Strange. Dwell should be 12-14ms. Dwell should not be causing the consistency issues you are having unless its very low like 8ms....

Could be dirty noid. I have seen noids cause unexplained volicty issues in other guns....all it takes is a small peice of teflon tape, grass blade or sand... unfortunately the NDs noid is not serviceable. However if its your last resort I have had success flushing them with a high quality liquid lube like AKA or GoldCup. However once you flush a noid it will need a few drops in the asa everytime you play as lube gets blown out unlike the greese that the factory uses.

Could also be a worn rammer oring, cyborgs have a similar ram and this worn oring causes volicity issues.

Just some thoughts, hope you get your ND back up to top health!
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:23 PM #10
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yes that reminds me, id like to replace the ram oring just because im almost positive that its a factory 09 oring.

id hate to have to mess with the noid. i enjoy just taking the gun out and using it. wipe it down when im done, and call it a day.

honestly, its not a big deal during a game. sure my grouping would be better if i fixed the problem but ive been living with it for a year now.


any idea what size the rammer oring should be?
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:19 PM #11
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Check and make sure you don't have any grease on the regulator seat, or mixed into the spring pack. If you're using a heavy grease on the ram then it's possible it's gotten mixed into the noid. You may be able to clean it out if this is the case. I would use oil in the rammer instead of grease.

Make sure the gun isn't having any leak issues around the LPR, HPR, internal hoses. Some soapy water and a spray bottle should help find any.

Check the reg seat on the end of the HPR piston. If it's deformed, or pops out of the piston easily that could cause issues(you may be able to flip it if you don't have a spare and it's rough looking). Make sure the adjustment screw hasn't been let out too far, or it can cause the bearing inside the reg to fall too low.....which kills your output pressure. Make sure the one metal shim at the top end of the reg(?) is facing the right direction. I believe the rounded side needs to face the bottom of the reg if memory serves. Make sure you don't have swollen orings on the bolt. The bolt should move smoothly by hand and not bind up at all. You also said you lubed the regs last year.....it may be time to service them.
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:08 PM #12
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the manual shows the single shim above the piston to have the rounded part pointing toward the top (threads)

i use violent pb jelly on the ram. it moves forward and back more freely than it did with PE oil.

the pistons, shim stacks, and springs are all free of lube. only the orings on the pistons have lube (violent pb jelly)

MstrKey, did i buy the 09 from you? i cant remember who i bought it from but iirc, he was from canada.

he said the shims were in place to increase output pressure of the reg because it could not crono high enough.
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:50 AM #13
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okay so i checked the manual and the very top shim (above the piston) does have the flat part facing the top (toward the threads)... i had it in the opposite way.

now im not to confident this will change anything. the bob long reg didnt really have an effect.

i shot the gun a bit today with the lpr out and it gave me to much kickback than i cared for so i think ill turn it back down and deal with the inconsistency for this sunday. I have a tourny and dont want to mess with things to much.

EDIT : flipping the top shim required me to increase hpr. i probably got a pressure drop from the flip so i needed to bring the screw out more to get the same pressure. not sure on consistency yet though.... i hope this helps.. i lowered the lpr a bit to get he kick down but my grouping seems to be better than before.

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Old 07-05-2012, 02:21 PM #14
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I think it was my gun that you bought actually. If the bob long reg didn't change anything then it's most likely something internal, unless the bob long reg is also to low on pressure. I'm not sure what the new ones output at. I know bob's guns run pretty low.

I know the ram moves more freely with the grease(I had the same experience), but the problem is that grease can build up in the small air paths of the noid. Oil will shoot though...grease usually will not. You can always pop the noid off and take a look down inside the spool and at the air paths to see if that's an issue. Usually the SMC noids don't have this problem but you never know.

What I would do, is just break the gun down into its main parts, air it up and use the squirt bottle. Go over the outside and inside. There are macro fittings inside that can leak..or ram orings(one hidden one on the front of the ram body)......you never know. Even a micro leak can cause issues. Maybe take out the cup seal and poppet to make sure the valve spring isn't kinked. Just do an overall inspection. Don't squirt the board lol.

Out of curiosity, when you switched to your g3 for testing the paint did you use the same air tank as on the alien? Here is something else to try. Zero out the LPR, air the gun up and let it sit a minute. Then try to shoot. Will the bolt cycle? Even a bit? You might be getting minor high pressure air bypassing the LPR. If you notice your first shot being high after the gun sits a bit this could be a problem. Or the LPR is creeping up.
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:35 PM #15
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i have always used this same tank on my tippmans, dangerous power's and various other guns. most of them could do +-10fps.


ill have to try the lpr test, good thinking.


not sure i want to break the gun down all the way. im comfortable doing that expect for pulling the cup seal. i did that on my 08 and i think i made it screwy.

id like to change the rammer oring just to see what is going on. But like i said, i flipped the top shim (above the piston) because i had it wrong. this might have effected thing..........

i still dont know the size for the rammer oring
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:57 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefoxx04 View Post
i have always used this same tank on my tippmans, dangerous power's and various other guns. most of them could do +-10fps.


ill have to try the lpr test, good thinking.


not sure i want to break the gun down all the way. im comfortable doing that expect for pulling the cup seal. i did that on my 08 and i think i made it screwy.

id like to change the rammer oring just to see what is going on. But like i said, i flipped the top shim (above the piston) because i had it wrong. this might have effected thing..........

i still dont know the size for the rammer oring
Well wait until after your event if you're not comfy. The cup seal comes out easy the trick is not to DROP it back into place. That can cause a nick somewhere.

Not sure about the ram oring size but it's pretty standard I believe. If you have any oring kits around you should be able to find one. If not put that one back on. You could do a quick spray on the outside of the gun without taking it apart. Macro lines...LPR cap...back ram cap.
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Old 07-08-2012, 07:50 PM #17
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well i raised the dwell up to 14 (was 12) and it wanted less pressure to shoot 290ish. i didnt have much time to fool with the crono.

the gun did, however, shoot twice as good as it normally does. i think the dwell change really woke it up.

i want to try a new rammer oring still. This coming sunday i will check it again on the crono but i dont be able to play with it. Playing a mechanical big game but i should have paint left over (playing pump)


We took in 2nd place out of 12 teams today. The indy mowed faces. I was soo happy.




and about the checking for leaks thing. im sooo lazy. i gave it a good listen for leaks when i was cleaning it today when i got home. didnt hear a thing. but i do have the spray bottle on my mind.
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:05 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefoxx04 View Post
...raised the dwell up to 14 (was 12) and it wanted less pressure to shoot 290ish. i didnt have much time to fool with the crono.
the gun did, however, shoot twice as good as it normally does.
i want to try a new rammer oring still.
We took in 2nd place out of 12 teams today. The indy mowed faces. I was soo happy.
NO! You had the Dwell too low and raised it and now it's where is should be - so leave it alone. It is mowing faces - leave it alone - otherwise you switch the O-Ring, and then you switch the..., and then the..., and you have changed so many things that you don't know where anything is. Just ask youself does any double stacked shoot better than your gun - not then you're good!
O'Rings should last 5 years without ever being touched! The ND has a sealed Rammer! It is EGOs and Timmy's that need service!
As far as Dwell - remember SMC's are air assist, so they take more dwell (but less battery) Unless you need to shoot faster than about 35BPS then 14 won't affect anything. That would be 14 forward and 14 back
AND... no it isn't shooting twice as good as normal. Rather it was shooting half as good as ND's usually do
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:12 PM #19
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haha thank you

that was my point... its shooting well so im not worried about it.

I ready your dwell post the other day and saw that 14ms was considered normal.. so thats what i ran it at and i think i saw results.
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:17 PM #20
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... read your dwell post the other day and saw that 14ms was considered normal.. so thats what i ran it at and i think i saw results.
Yes, because some others use MAC there is the thought that lower is better - but IMO SMC is the best way to go. Less blown noids and better battery life - just have to know that 8MS isn't better.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:59 AM #21
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didn't want to start a new thread. i got my indy it was shooting hot around 330 fps. turned it down to field limit, which us 285. shot great a little inconsistent.im assuming because the lpr was set to the old hpr setting. should I lower lpr to make it more consistent and lees kicky?
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