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Old 01-19-2012, 04:52 PM #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilxx View Post
Seems like a good idea, in that they are trying to add a 'focal point' to the game. Similar to moving the football or basketball, it would be easy for non-players to follow, without actually understanding the sport.
It would be easy (kind of) to follow the flag.... as for the rest of the game, it would still be just as boring to watch for non-paintballers, as any other format.

People have to come to terms with the fact, that paintball is such a technical and tactical sport, that it requires personal (often tournament) experience to appreciate the game, be that as a televised sport, or as a spectator.... because, irrespective of the format, 95 % of the time, you just see some guys sitting there pulling a trigger, without being able to understand and appreciate the finer points of the game.

Paintball is boring to watch to non-players, and no amount of format tinkering will change that - wish it wasn't so.... but it's the reality, no matter how much we all wish it was different.

It's just like sailing is totally boring to watch for most people (except for the last 30 seconds of a close match race), that have so sailing experience.

Just like dressage is just as exiting to watch for a layperson, as watching paint dry (no pun intended).

Just like fencing (the closest we get to a sister sport), is impossible to follow and get into, if you have not fenced.

I understand and appreciate all the positivity and hope, every time some new format rears its initially beautiful head.... but people are thinking with their hearts, instead of their heads.
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:54 PM #107
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Golf is also tremendously boring for most people to watch.

There just happen to be a lot of people who play golf.

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Old 01-19-2012, 07:46 PM #108
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Come on guys. stop bashing people who are trying to give something new and awesome to our sport ! If no one are trying anything else how paintball will grow up ?
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:00 PM #109
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Apparently you caught on that I was sidestepping comment.

The regional/national setup is a good concept. The NCPA has been using it successfully for a decade.

Most everything else is not well-developed.

The game format appears to add a whole bunch of complexity for no additional benefit over the format we're playing now. That makes it more expensive to run, harder to televise (and I'm one of the few people who actually has to care about ability to televise) and not (in my opinion) any more fun. But, what you consider fun varies from person to person, and I certainly don't like telling other people how they have to play their paintball.

There are a whole bunch of rules that take off of established sports (drafting players, etc) that, for a league that doesn't exist yet, are just creating obstacles to participation. Yes, I get it, people get a warm fuzzy when you tell them they get to be team owners and there's a tryout and draft for players, and it would be great if paintball were in a place where that made sense, but it isn't. At the end of the day people who are PAYING to participate in tournaments (and that's what 99.99% of tournament players are doing) want to pick their teammates, pay their entry fee, show up and play.

An "uncapped semi-auto rule" is not a rule at all.

Given that the rules specify both that you MUST shoot league-branded paint AND you must buy a minimum amount of it per tournament, coupled with the format and the uncapped semi-auto rule, the whole thing appears to be set up to sell the players as much paint as possible.

Which is a certain path to failure for a paintball league. Paint consumption is bad.

Clearly there's someone(s) with a lot of enthusiasm behind this. You can tell that a lot of work has been done. But they have gotten a bit carried away and are trying to do way too much without a handle on the practical details of how it all will work. You can see it in things like this:



What does "had diligence performed" and "with respect and input" mean?

If I were doing this, I'd start with just running the format at some fields around the country, put the results together, and if that does well, THEN worry about all the other stuff.



That's a pretty good summary.

So, if you think the format will be fun, give it a whirl, just don't get caught up in all the owner/expansion/meeting/draft stuff. Paintball isn't anywhere close to any of that mattering.


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You pretty much summed up my thoughts on it. The format I want to try but the paint, gear and draft parts are ridiculous.

Do you plan on giving the format a try? Or do you think the format rules are just that bad?

I'm going to encourage a scrim day out here in Houston just to see if its worth a try. I don't really know enough about any of the formats to judge them just by rules to be honest.
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:23 PM #110
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The website is so horribly created I didnt bother checking it out. Feel free to PM me if that changes...
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:47 PM #111
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I admire their passion, it's refreshing to see someone trying to improve the sport and introduce a whole new format. Unfortunately, this looks terrible. The website is horrendous as people have mentioned. There are a lot of questions that it really doesn't answer and it looks half finished. I wouldn't have even bothered launching it yet. The flag/point rules are ridiculous and their instructional video showed that it will be a game of constant stalemates and side flipping without players actually scoring.

The best attempt at a different format of paintball IMO was the AXBL. I wish it would have picked up and spread across the country, I liked watching the videos from the series and even though I never so much as met anyone who played an event, I still kept up with it. It was very similar to the old x-ball league and lots of people could adapt to it quite easily. No crazy flag rules or anything.

Not saying I'm rooting for you to fail, by all means if you get plenty of teams interested and this works out, more power to you!
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:54 PM #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeage View Post
Do you plan on giving the format a try?
There are very, very, very few format ideas that come up that I have not heard of, thought of, or considered before. You can go back to usenet and find a couple format discussions similar to this back in 2000-2001.

Lots of people come up with "new" format ideas all the time. I'm with Nick Brockdorf - most of them don't make enough of a difference to worry about. Timed matches vs. best of /set number of games is significantly different, and it appears timed matches has won (even NPPL doesn't like 7-man anymore). Any other significant change involves SIGNIFICANT change, and this change isn't significant.

Any focus I would put on new formats would be on limited paint.


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Old 01-19-2012, 09:19 PM #113
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:11 AM #114
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For paintball to take a step in the right direction, there is only one solution...one pro league. PERIOD.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:16 AM #115
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For paintball to take a step in the right direction, there is only one solution...one pro league. PERIOD.
i do agree it is difficult to get non-players to learn or understand the game with multiple leagues/various rules. this 'regional' idea though seems easy to follow and could perhaps inspire some hometown pride provided their team wins some big events.

i think it's good that new things are being tried
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:41 AM #116
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It would be easy (kind of) to follow the flag.... as for the rest of the game, it would still be just as boring to watch for non-paintballers, as any other format.

People have to come to terms with the fact, that paintball is such a technical and tactical sport, that it requires personal (often tournament) experience to appreciate the game, be that as a televised sport, or as a spectator.... because, irrespective of the format, 95 % of the time, you just see some guys sitting there pulling a trigger, without being able to understand and appreciate the finer points of the game.

Paintball is boring to watch to non-players, and no amount of format tinkering will change that - wish it wasn't so.... but it's the reality, no matter how much we all wish it was different.

It's just like sailing is totally boring to watch for most people (except for the last 30 seconds of a close match race), that have so sailing experience.

Just like dressage is just as exiting to watch for a layperson, as watching paint dry (no pun intended).

Just like fencing (the closest we get to a sister sport), is impossible to follow and get into, if you have not fenced.

I understand and appreciate all the positivity and hope, every time some new format rears its initially beautiful head.... but people are thinking with their hearts, instead of their heads.
I absoloutely agree with you good sir. I have long subscribed to the unpopular belief (amongst players anyways) that paintball is a terrible example of a spectator sport.

I like to compare it to motocross: While tv does help make the progress of a match easier to follow, if you're at the actual event the darn things are maddening! Lol
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:16 AM #117
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Quote:
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..it appears timed matches has won (even NPPL doesn't like 7-man anymore).


Any focus I would put on new formats would be on limited paint.
Thanks for the input.. Last I checked we are all 7 man for our upper divisions. Sorry we got your panty's in a bundle by trying to steal a bigger peice of the five man pie. If your refering to going to a 'best of' style match, we always have this in finals and now it's in prelims too. Most the players and the league want a cleaner point system with win/loss of some sort. We may not agree %100 with the psp on rules but we have been testing out a 'raceto' style for a LONG time.

limited paint is an interesting topic though for this league or others. most games you see that run low on paint do get boring but if you just put like a 1 min cap on games (doesnt matter if they tie most points, the beginning/end of game is all people want to see anyways) and limit the paint of the team down so they cant really just sit and lane the whole game (definitively THE most boring thing to see in pb.. although one of the most fun parts it really doesn't give us an athletic look to others, makes it more of a shooting 'game' than an athletic sport.)

the hard part is making a sport that is more fast paced and athletic without destroying our 'hanging by a thread' industry

requireing less paint to play 'big leage ball' is a great step towards local teams being able to afford more practice (imagine if teams could play a couple nights a week maybe even three.)
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:11 AM #118
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Come on guys. stop bashing people who are trying to give something new and awesome to our sport ! If no one are trying anything else how paintball will grow up ?
Not "bashing", just saying these guys are looking at the wrong area to "improve paintball".

If we want to grow the sport, it's not about the format..... it's about the game being the same at rental level and at tournament level.

When paintball was expanding rapidly, it was because the game was the same, at both levels, so it was easy to transition from rental to sport.

That is no longer true, for the majority of fields, and that is the reason the sport is in decline IMHO, while the scenario scene is growing moderately, even in a recession.

Trying to get a player from an average rental field, which is predominantly woodland/scenario based, into the sport, is like trying to get people into roadracing, at a bicycle track... the two are only remotely familiar, and that makes it a hard sale.

The key to expanding the sport of paintball, is to get more fields turned on to running tournament style fields at their venue, and that starts with the industry (manufacturers and distributors) changing their focus, and actually starting to offer fields solutions for running high end fields and making it profitable to do so.... rather than continuously being focussed on selling them cheap paint, cheap equipment and camo overalls.

The ratio of fields offering tournament style games to rental groups, is in my oppinion directly proportional to the number of players we see on the tournament scene.

If the industry got a little smarter, they would start to see that by growing tournament style ball at rental fields, they would massively increase their sales on high end equipment, where the margins are much better.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:48 AM #119
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i'm still up on the fence about the format. but here is my problem. If I want to play and I go out to one of these "combine"'s to tryout, is it going to be held against me that I won't pick up a semi marker? I play pump. Always have and always will. I hold my own with one and if i showcase that talent, will I not be selected only because of what I shoot? Also because of what I shoot, I'm not going to need anywhere NEAR the amount of paint, yet a "minimum" is required to be bought? screw that. I feel that the people who are really putting this together need to answer several questions, many of which have been asked on this thread already. i've spent the last 15 minutes or so reading through this thread, and for the most part feel everyone has reasonable concerns. so i guess my final .02 is that if it works, and it gives more exposure to us as a whole, HOORAY! if it fails and we continue on the path we are on, then so be it. there will still be paintball.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:24 PM #120
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i'm still up on the fence about the format. but here is my problem. If I want to play and I go out to one of these "combine"'s to tryout, is it going to be held against me that I won't pick up a semi marker? I play pump. Always have and always will. I hold my own with one and if i showcase that talent, will I not be selected only because of what I shoot? Also because of what I shoot, I'm not going to need anywhere NEAR the amount of paint, yet a "minimum" is required to be bought? screw that. I feel that the people who are really putting this together need to answer several questions, many of which have been asked on this thread already. i've spent the last 15 minutes or so reading through this thread, and for the most part feel everyone has reasonable concerns. so i guess my final .02 is that if it works, and it gives more exposure to us as a whole, HOORAY! if it fails and we continue on the path we are on, then so be it. there will still be paintball.
I play this with a pump! You can totally play this and dominate, just like in anything else! In fact I think pump does better, the game play is so fast that the semi guys are looking more for the incoming stream of paint.

I get more eliminations on the one shot, and cutting down the angles while running down field than ever before!

I think its really cool to have three of the team coaches asking me to be one of their three picks they get before the draft starts!

I am waiting for the combine myself for the selfish a reason.....I cant pick which team I want to be on! I will just leave it up to fate....All these guys are great coaches, and great guys! I simply cant make a decision right now!

Just play your game, play smart, and go for it!!!!

There is a team from the home league that is all pump from what I hear, and they do very well!!!!
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:53 PM #121
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Any focus I would put on new formats would be on limited paint.
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. It doesnt matter what you set the paint limit / cap either as long as a rule is put in place that makes the teams start the game on a even playing field.

no other hobby/sport promotes teams to compete on uneven terms.
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:24 PM #122
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From what I've read in the rules the format sounds like it might be a fun way to play once in a while. But I'm not sure I would be interested in playing a tournament that way.
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:38 PM #123
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I play this with a pump! You can totally play this and dominate, just like in anything else! In fact I think pump does better, the game play is so fast that the semi guys are looking more for the incoming stream of paint.

I get more eliminations on the one shot, and cutting down the angles while running down field than ever before!

I think its really cool to have three of the team coaches asking me to be one of their three picks they get before the draft starts!

I am waiting for the combine myself for the selfish a reason.....I cant pick which team I want to be on! I will just leave it up to fate....All these guys are great coaches, and great guys! I simply cant make a decision right now!

Just play your game, play smart, and go for it!!!!

There is a team from the home league that is all pump from what I hear, and they do very well!!!!
i understand you can play pump in it. I just hope that most teams will still consider a player even if he is shooting a pump
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:43 PM #124
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Play pump how Kenny plays pump, and yes, teams will definitely consider you
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:53 PM #125
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Quote:
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. It doesnt matter what you set the paint limit / cap either as long as a rule is put in place that makes the teams start the game on a even playing field.
In terms of the immediate competitive needs, it doesn't matter.

In terms of teams not going broke, it absolutely matters.


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Old 01-20-2012, 02:55 PM #126
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Ill throw in my two cents worth. The think that i like about this format, is that it keeps alot of the money at the hometown field. Yea it has things that still need to be ironed out, but overall, I see alot of potential if this style gets up and running.
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