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Old 07-01-2012, 05:24 PM #1
Predator1117
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Rescued Karnivor Restoration

Just rescued a Karnivor from a neglectful owner. I'm new to Autocockers but been in the game since 1995. Always wanted a Autococker and the Karnivor is the best looking one I think.

I want to restore it to stock condition. It's got a Zero B board 1.10. What is the differences between the E1, E2, And Zero B? What is the best "stock" board to have?

The kid never cleaned it from what I can tell. It looks like he has modified the stock bolt, see Picture below. Is this the way they came? Why would he do that? If this is modified I'd like to get a new one. Where can I buy one?

Whats the proper way to remove the back block, Cocking rod, and Pump arm? I've cleaned what I can but need to tear the front block and internals. What special tools should I get besides a IVG tool?

So far the Detent and the IVG is toast. Where can I get a new snatch grip screw? Kid used a trigger frame screw instead and broke the IVG.
I know I can get most of the parts from paintball gateway but I don't see a snatch grip screw or a stock bolt there.

Should I get a madman spring kit?

Paid $280. How did I do?

[IMG][/IMG]

Why would he do this?


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Old 07-01-2012, 05:52 PM #2
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didn't like the old thread name? lol
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:02 PM #3
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Just wanted to clean it up
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:48 PM #4
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Originally Posted by Predator1117 View Post
Just rescued a Karnivor from a neglectful owner. I'm new to Autocockers but been in the game since 1995. Always wanted a Autococker and the Karnivor is the best looking one I think.

I want to restore it to stock condition. It's got a Zero B board 1.10. What is the differences between the E1, E2, And Zero B? What is the best "stock" board to have?

Best board would be an E2, the ZeroB is a close second though, the only difference is the smaller screen size; the E1 has a smaller LED screen and goes through batteries like no other

The kid never cleaned it from what I can tell. It looks like he has modified the stock bolt, see Picture below. Is this the way they came? Why would he do that? If this is modified I'd like to get a new one. Where can I buy one?

They seem to have drilled it to make it lighter, if there are no burrs that hinder smooth operation, I'd use it as is. If you want a new one you'll need to look for evo length bolts. I can't think of anyone who's selling them new though

Whats the proper way to remove the back block, Cocking rod, and Pump arm? I've cleaned what I can but need to tear the front block and internals. What special tools should I get besides a IVG tool?

You'll need to take the ICS rod off first, take the bolt out, then screw the hammer lug all the way back and then use a padded vise wrench to unscrew the ICS rod; then once that's out, you can unscrew the back block and banjo as with any regular 'cocker.

To tear down the pneus you'll just need a set of decent wrenches and the padded vise wrench (you can substitute the padding on the wrench with electrical tape, make sure to use lots of it though), after you've taken it apart you can use a rex dialer kit, which should also have all the hammer springs you need. If you plan on taking the valve out, then you'll also need a valve tool.


So far the Detent and the IVG is toast. Where can I get a new snatch grip screw? Kid used a trigger frame screw instead and broke the IVG.
I know I can get most of the parts from paintball gateway but I don't see a snatch grip screw or a stock bolt there.

Hardware store would be a good start, flat allen head, you can use a small rod to measure the appropriate length of the screw

Should I get a madman spring kit?

If you're going for smooth, get a maddman; if you're going for efficient, get an AKA kit

Paid $280. How did I do?

Very well considering it's a ZeroB with a samurai trigger and it doesn't seem to have any major blemishes
Personal recommendation: if the 'noid or valve aren't leaking, don't mess with them.
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:50 PM #5
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The Zero B in my opinion is the best of the three factory boards released by Planet Eclipse. That board is basically identical to the E2 boards, I believe they released the Zero B as an upgrade for the people who have purchased the E1 and would like to upgrade to the E2 without spending an arm and a leg for a frame when they were relatively new. The E1's from past experience loved to suck up batteries, but still have plenty of features to fine tune, however the Zero B/E2s were a lot more user friendly and better on battery consumption.

From pics provided of the bolt, it looked like he was simply trying to take off mass to reduce weight. Guess he was trying to make the bolt a lot lighter by removing material in hopes of making the marker cycle faster. But again I'm sure this can be debatable.

As for finding a new Karnivor style bolt, it's going to be tough. It's unique in length, the Karnivor's won't accept standard pre 2k/2k+ or even p block style bolts. Hopefully someone on here will have an insight on where to purchase them new but I have yet to see any aftermarket or OEM bolts that are new floating around.

In order to take off the Karnivor style back block. You must first disassemble the internal cocking system:

1.) Remove frame, beavertail, and bolt.
2.) Unscrew the internal cocking rod that's attached inside of the back block. Best to use a small crescent wrench, note that the ICS (internal cocking system) rod is most likely loctited into the back of the back block.
3.) The back block will now be able to unscrew from the pump arm like a standard Autococker.
4.) You can now remove the IVG, if he does have the OEM style IVG then it's best to invest in the proper Karni IVG tool for later use. (http://www.paintballgateway.com/wgpstokaauiv.html) But for now you can simply find pliers or use two allen keys and just unscrew it out.
5.) Once that's out, Main spring should slide right out, onto of the Karnvors body should be a hole that's big enough for a 1/8th allen, slot that allen key down until you hit the Hammer's lug, adjust counter-clockwise while inspecting the lug nut from the bottom of the body until the lug is flushed into the hammer's body. That will now slide out along with the ICS which is attached to it.
5.) If you wish to proceed to taking out the valve, you'll need a valve removal tool (http://www.paintballgateway.com/chitauvajamn.html). The operations of removing the valve assembly is identical to any other standard autococker in the market.

The Karnivor's beavertail, beavertail screw, and IVG works correspondingly. Make sure you note that when installing the beavertail's screw, it must slot between the fangs of the Karnivor's IVG. Otherwise you'll just end up snapping one of it's fangs off. The screw will set between the slot, acting as a stopper so the IVG won't unscrew while firing. I believe the screw for the IVG is a 10-32x3/8th (http://www.paintballgateway.com/scbuhe10x3821.html) someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

If you truly wish to tinker and fine tune your marker, the madman spring kit provides excellent spring combinations, but I've honestly found the stock Karnivor internals to be flawless.

But for $280? Heck, that's a great a pick up considering they went over a grand when they were first introduced!
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:55 PM #6
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Bought a SLIK bolt for it. It was really sad when I got it. It was caked with old paint. Poor Karni.
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:57 PM #7
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EDIT:

If I recall correctly, the reason why I stuck with the stock Karnivor man spring (gold) is because no other main spring would fit over the ICS (Internal Cocking System). I tried a WGP Orracle and Check It LP springs and they both did not fit over the ICS. I've yet to try the Madman spring kit, but I have a hunch those won't work either since the unique gold Karnivor springs are made wider in diameter to fit over the ICS properly.
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:56 PM #8
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Originally Posted by bac0n View Post
As for finding a new Karnivor style bolt, it's going to be tough. It's unique in length, the Karnivor's won't accept standard pre 2k/2k+ or even p block style bolts. Hopefully someone on here will have an insight on where to purchase them new but I have yet to see any aftermarket or OEM bolts that are new floating around.
no...it takes evo length bolts.
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Old 07-07-2012, 02:14 PM #9
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Quote:
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no...it takes evo length bolts.
True it does take evo length bolts but yeah still can be tricky to find them. Kinda have really look for them in a way.
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:59 AM #10
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If no one has mentioned this site yet, try www.compulsivepaintball.com
They have quite a bit of evo bolts and other misc parts for cockers...maybe that can give you a few options as well.
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:44 PM #11
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Bought a SLIK bolt for it. It was really sad when I got it. It was caked with old paint. Poor Karni.
good call, the slik ones are arguably the best bolt out there...and dont cost an arm and a leg. they are really the only ones id consider an "upgrade" from the stock one.

unless compulsive has one in evo length it looks like the only way youll find a stock one new is the check it ones on pbgateway by buying the 2k length one, and then the karnivor size front half and putting it together, but thats like $50 which is a lot for a wgp bolt....but just fyi..

and to remove the ics rod from the back block there should be some flat spots on it somewhere for a wrench. other than that its more or less like any other cocker.

and if youve got a zero-b with the ramping modes already dont worry about trying to find an e2. they're virtually the same board programming wise. one says e2 when you turn it on, one says zero-b instead. heck i think they came stock with either at one point.

ivg/beavertail screw size has already been mentioned, same as grip frame screw, just shorter. its pretty common for people to forget about it and shred the ivg lol.

i honestly wouldnt even bother trying to take out the internals, or replacing them since the stock ones are pretty good...just take the frame off and wipe out the old gunk with a q-tip from the hammer slot on the bottom of the body if its that bad. spray in some white lithium grease like the manual reccomends afterwards.

if the solenoid doesnt leak, id leave it alone..as long as none of the pneu's dont leak id say dont bother with them. they are pretty rock solid.

clean the clapper noid in the frame if need be...paint and gunk can work its way into there. do not put any lube on afterwards. leave it dry.

honestly id just give it a good cleaning, get a new detent like CP, eclipse or check-it. the eclipse and check ones are rebuildable so you can take them apart if need be for cleaning. put a few drops of oil right into the asa and dry fire it a few times...set the lpr just high enough to cock it, the ivg at about 2 threads in...adjust the main reg to the desired fps..set it to factory fast and go mow faces. karnivors never really needed much maintenance, i loved mine.

$280 = awesome.
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Old 07-29-2012, 04:25 PM #12
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Hey just wondering if there was a decent run through or manual or the Orracles ? I need starting points for pressures etc. The one I am working on really only likes about 250psi and if you get off that it pukes.

Links would be appreciated

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Old 07-29-2012, 10:43 PM #13
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Hey just wondering if there was a decent run through or manual or the Orracles ? I need starting points for pressures etc. The one I am working on really only likes about 250psi and if you get off that it pukes.

Links would be appreciated

-R
all wgps guns came with a prostock manual. i bought a karnivor brand new for example, and in the box was an 04 prostock manual, and the eblade manual.

really the only difference between any of wgp's gun's is the milling...so if you can find any wgp manual your set...

or, there should be a tuning guide in the stickies somewhere.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:56 PM #14
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augh, thanks.

I love me some manuals. Well I recall the Orracles were a bit different in pressures. This thing is just silly picky, never had one this jumpy about pressures.

thanks

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Old 07-31-2012, 08:31 AM #15
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Midblock Karni FTW

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Old 08-01-2012, 09:30 PM #16
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Decided against the break beam eyes. SLIK bolt, CP Detent, and a few spare parts bout $100


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Old 08-17-2012, 06:39 PM #17
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wow, great job, and find, that Ti color is by far my favorite color. Look me up if you ever want to be rid of it... haha
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Old 08-18-2012, 04:03 PM #18
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The Karnivor bolt is a special Evo Length. Its not exactly Evo Length, its a tad bit shorter.

The karnis LPR is what is used to adjust how far the bolt travels back. Theres no Cocking rod adjustment. So WGP actually made their Karni bolt shorter to prevent chopped balls.

A standard Belsales Evo Length bolt will require the LPR pressure to be raised even more for its extra length.

For the board, if you have the E1 window'ed frame, get the zero-b if you have the e2 windowed frame get the e2 board.

Spring wise, stay with the stock springs unless your going to drill out your BB and use a traditional hammer/cocking rod setup. Run your reg at 280 PSI going into the gun. THe IVG should be set with about 2 threads visible in the back of the gun.

Set the marker to classic mode and adjust the bolt clears the breach accordingly.
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