Tungsten hammer?

PumpChump131 · 06-24-2012, 12:37 PM

Can someone tell me what's the benefits of having a tungsten hammer in a sniper?

Nahib_Stilgar · 06-24-2012, 01:26 PM

It costs, more and is therefore cooler?

Supposedly it is super hard, and I ... don't actually know if it is heavier or lighter than a regular stainless steel one? so I cant actually answer this question.

PumpChump131 · 06-24-2012, 01:55 PM

My wife got me a ring made of tungsten and it's pretty light and supposedly scratch resistances, but I'm just curious if it has benefits to a sniper if any.

B3ARC1AW · 06-24-2012, 02:32 PM

Tungsten, I believe, is lighter than steel. It is also stronger than steel. Tungsten has an ultimate tensile strength of 100,000-500,000 psi depending on the purity of the tungsten, whereas stainless steel has a UTS of around 70,000-80,000 depending on the composition of elements used in the grade of steel. Tungsten also doesn't scratch, ding, nick, or get disfigured as easily as steel.

As for benefits of having a tungsten hammer, it will be stronger than a steel one (but then again when has a hammer broken in your sniper?) and with it being lighter than steel I can guess there might be a small increase in efficiency. Overall it seems like a tungsten hammer is just another upgrade they sell to make more money. While there seems to be some benefit, I wouldn't ever buy one myself.

vikingshadow · 06-24-2012, 02:47 PM

I thought it snipers, it was better to have a heavier hammer? Or am I misremembering?

Nahib_Stilgar · 06-24-2012, 03:15 PM

Thats what I thought as well...Heavy hammer to open the valve fast and heavy valve spring to shut it fast? that way the valve is fully open but for a shorter time?

Or I might be totally out to lunch.

PumpChump131 · 06-24-2012, 03:38 PM

Thanks for all the info guys.

Kealda · 06-24-2012, 05:12 PM

Tungsten carbide is denser than steel.

ewe · 06-24-2012, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B3ARC1AW

Tungsten, I believe, is lighter than steel.

nope, it is more dense ie is heavier than a steel hammer of the same size.

Freeflow cockers usually came with a tungsten hammer. using a heavier hammer has pros and cons

pros:
-with a heavier hammer, lighter springs can be used to open the valve with the same force. has to do with the K value of the spring and the moving mass of the hammer
-less chance of the "farting" because the hammer wont bounce in the valve face when tuned correctly
-better efficiency (will realize this more in a cocker) because less air is required to move the hammer against lighter springs

cons:
-with the design of the cocker air flow, when the air goes through the hammer, then turns 90 degrees to go the bolt creating a downward force. over time this force will cause the hammer to gouge out the softer aluminium
-harder to tune with a LP valve

regardless of the cons, ive had a tungsten hammer in my pumps for years.

hope this helps

Frizzle Fry · 06-24-2012, 05:52 PM

Tungsten - Don't do it.

Any pros are outweighed by the huge, major CON. Can anybody tell me what's wrong with a very dense and heavy metal like tungsten rubbing repeatedly along a significantly less dense alloy like aluminum (especially mid to low grade aluminum, as many cockers are)?

Hogzilla88 · 06-24-2012, 06:23 PM

They can cause excessive wear inside the body.

Jackel411 · 06-24-2012, 07:30 PM

Utter garbage, they wreck lower tubes. Back when freeflow had them in their guns when they were new you could see wear in the body after the first use.

ewe · 06-24-2012, 08:00 PM

i am the original owner of a FF millenium cocker i bought in 2001. played countless tournaments and shot way more paint during practice 3-4 times a month for the better part of 2 years with a tungsten hammer. switched to DM's in 2003 and it has been my pump since then. an honest guess of paint through it is around 100 cases of paint. dont have any issues holding air or chrono being erratic.
even now it is a very consistent 280 +/- 3 fps. putting one in a pump gun should not be an issue.

Frizzle Fry · 06-24-2012, 09:24 PM

EWE - yours might very well not have a tungsten hammer, Free Flow stopped using them relatively early on, but that didn't stop shop owners and players from talking about them as if every marker has one in it and how amazing they are - you know how it goes.

If remove the hammer/spring/IVG and shine a light in your lower tube, you will see wear above the slot for the grub and sear. If there's no wear, you more likely than not have an SS hammer. If you have a Freeflow in T3HA (Engineered Ano) you might not see as much wear. If you use a roller sear and a beveled lug you might not see as much wear.

It's not to say that the hammers are a complete failure, just that most autococker bodies shouldn't be paired with them and they have a great potential to do damage.

ewe · 06-24-2012, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

EWE - yours might very well not have a tungsten hammer, Free Flow stopped using them relatively early on, but that didn't stop shop owners and players from talking about them as if every marker has one in it and how amazing they are - you know how it goes.

If remove the hammer/spring/IVG and shine a light in your lower tube, you will see wear above the slot for the grub and sear. If there's no wear, you more likely than not have an SS hammer. If you have a Freeflow in T3HA (Engineered Ano) you might not see as much wear. If you use a roller sear and a beveled lug you might not see as much wear.

It's not to say that the hammers are a complete failure, just that most autococker bodies shouldn't be paired with them and they have a great potential to do damage.

agreed, but i KNOW it is a tungsten hammer and yes there is wear but not anything is affecting performance. just giving my experience with them and saying if it is for a pump then the cons are way, WAY down the road since it is a use induced failure.

migelito67 · 06-25-2012, 10:09 PM

How can you tell i f the hammer is tungstin? I have a Team Lockout FF that i converted to a pump.

Castro #66 · 06-25-2012, 10:36 PM

Will a tungsten hammer work? Yes.

Is there a really good reason to use one? Probably not.

You decide.

ewe · 06-25-2012, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by migelito67

How can you tell i f the hammer is tungstin? I have a Team Lockout FF that i converted to a pump.

pull it out any weigh it. if i remember correctly it should be approx 70-75 grams versus a brass one is around 45.

Frizzle Fry · 06-25-2012, 11:54 PM

Other option is to pull it out and scratch it...

And yea, on a semi with a soft spring the logic was that it would be softer on paint, but the fact of the matter is that great mass and so little pushing it forward makes it tough to to get your timing right (slow return). On a pump however it makes for a very smooth and light stroke, and a bit extra kick.

onepumpchump13 · 06-26-2012, 10:09 AM

Yea just took this out of my lotus.... gun sounded like a dying bullfrog when I autotriggered..... kinda amusing...

Tungsten hamma bad

jach707 · 06-28-2012, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewe

cons:
-with the design of the cocker air flow, when the air goes through the hammer, then turns 90 degrees to go the bolt creating a downward force. over time this force will cause the hammer to gouge out the softer aluminium
-harder to tune with a LP valve

regardless of the cons, ive had a tungsten hammer in my pumps for years.

hope this helps

Correct about the tungsten hammer being harder than aluminum and wearing it down.

Wrong about the air flow.