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Old 06-17-2012, 07:11 PM #85
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Well yes it makes sense why they say god did it because god is the word we use to describe the cause.
We both know you don't exactly hold mainstream positions on this...
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Old 06-17-2012, 07:13 PM #86
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We both know you don't exactly hold mainstream positions on this...
Your mainstream for Christianity is the average Christian. Should our mainstream for science be the opinions of kids going through our school system?
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Old 06-17-2012, 07:36 PM #87
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Well yes it makes sense why they say god did it because god is the word we use to describe the cause.
It doesn't seem like the idea of god fits well with a natural and logical mechanism for life.
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:15 PM #88
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We both know you don't exactly hold mainstream positions on this...
That is what makes it fun though isn't it?

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It doesn't seem like the idea of god fits well with a natural and logical mechanism for life.
Maybe you need to adjust your conception of the idea.
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:37 PM #89
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Isn't god supernatural by definition?
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:42 PM #90
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Isn't god supernatural by definition?
Draw the line between the natural and super natural. It also helps if we (I) know what you think God is supposed to be.
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:45 PM #91
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In this case natural would be worldly and you said that god is what you describe the cause to be. To say god did it is simply saying I have no ****ing clue why but I'll say some all powerful being made it so.
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:50 PM #92
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Well yes it makes sense why they say god did it because god is the word we use to describe the cause.
Is it not wrong to use this as a reason to force belief or governance over others? Has this reasoning ever shown to be correct in the past? Why should it remain a valid answer to anything that involves the rights and abilities of others today?
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Old 06-17-2012, 09:01 PM #93
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Is it not wrong to use this as a reason to force belief or governance over others? Has this reasoning ever shown to be correct in the past? Why should it remain a valid answer to anything that involves the rights and abilities of others today?
If it isn't God it is something else. Everyone is largely forced to some form of governance and belief system they don't agree with. That's society. The best thing you can do is make it workable.

It doesn't matter whether or not God exists in this context. What matters is how well people are able to relate what they are calling God to us as it would benefit us.
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Old 06-17-2012, 09:05 PM #94
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In this case natural would be worldly and you said that god is what you describe the cause to be. To say god did it is simply saying I have no ****ing clue why but I'll say some all powerful being made it so.
So we've established that God is a super powerful being that "exists" outside of the natural yet has influence in it? I think this more or less implies consciousness. There are many ways people have viewed God and their relationship to it

Does God have to be conscious? Can it merely be a principle we are struggling to piece together?

I can't help but feel like you are boxed in to the anthropomorphic evangelical american version.
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Old 06-17-2012, 09:10 PM #95
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Every common god is athropomorphised and what I'm talking about. Sure you can take some abstract meaning for god but it's not the gods debated here and not the god that's oppressing people.
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Old 06-17-2012, 09:16 PM #96
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Every common god is athropomorphised and what I'm talking about. Sure you can take some abstract meaning for god but it's not the gods debated here and not the god that's oppressing people.
The first sentence is actually untrue.

You guys are debating nonsense.

Even if it is real, looking for it by methods of direct observation is never going to get you proof. You need to indirectly observe it as it interacts with the material. As the creator of the material, it is not material itself. The best evidence for this being is the fact that the entire universe operates on some set of laws that we are slowly putting together. We find black holes in a similar fashion.

People oppress people. they think they have the right answers over the other guys.
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Old 06-17-2012, 09:22 PM #97
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It's more right than it is wrong.

Indirectly observe what moving through what material?

Please tell me what mediates gravity. God?
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Old 06-17-2012, 09:32 PM #98
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You dont like broad strokes if I remember correctly. Why is OK to pull it out now?

Interaction is not the same thing as control. Keep an open mind please.
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Old 06-17-2012, 09:46 PM #99
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You dont like broad strokes if I remember correctly. Why is OK to pull it out now?

Interaction is not the same thing as control. Keep an open mind please.
How many common gods aren't anthropomorphic?

Mediators interact, they don't control. ;P

What interaction should we indirectly observe?
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:25 PM #100
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Is it not wrong to use this as a reason to force belief or governance over others? Has this reasoning ever shown to be correct in the past? Why should it remain a valid answer to anything that involves the rights and abilities of others today?
Have any moral values been shown to be intrinsically morally right?
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:10 AM #101
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A little more advanced Christianity, the Christian would have to believe that God is in him in the form of the Holy Spirit. I don't think most people realize how incredible the implications for that are. It can only be as infinitely powerful as an individual believes it can be. The belief can stabilize the mind in extreme situations.
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:20 AM #102
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So god's power varies with your amount of faith?
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:03 AM #103
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Well yes it makes sense why they say god did it because god is the word we use to describe the cause.
In your view does God have free will? (Trying to determine if we're using different words to describe the same thing)

Edit: When you really get down to it, that's the difference between Christians and Atheists, isn't it? I mean, if you throw out the mythology of Christianity (as you seem to have) and embrace empiricism as an accurate descriptor of God's works, the only difference between an Atheist and a Christian is whether or not there's a will behind the creation, no? (Ignoring the Jesus thing for a minute)
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Last edited by Umami : 06-18-2012 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 06-18-2012, 12:16 PM #104
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How many common gods aren't anthropomorphic?
Technically none. Anthropomorphism is a way of making things relatable to us. The problem is not that so much as it is taking those things literally.

The Brahman is not given any anthropomorphic treatment whatsoever and it is easily the deity in Hinduism. It is said that all other deities are merely emanations of it, as are we.

Gnostic Christianity and the Kabbalah express similar viewpoints as well.

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Mediators interact, they don't control. ;P
A "law" or "mechanism" is also a form of control.

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What interaction should we indirectly observe?
That's the million dollar question isnt it? Perhaps why we have so many different versions in the first place.
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Old 06-18-2012, 12:26 PM #105
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Technically none. Anthropomorphism is a way of making things relatable to us. The problem is not that so much as it is taking those things literally.
Technically? Scripture is the word of the respective deity, it's to be taken literally.

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The Brahman is not given any anthropomorphic treatment whatsoever and it is easily the deity in Hinduism. It is said that all other deities are merely emanations of it, as are we.
How come there are plenty of depictions of all gods?

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Gnostic Christianity and the Kabbalah express similar viewpoints as well.
Yet they all say what god looks like.

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A "law" or "mechanism" is also a form of control.
The laws of electrodynamics control how the photon interacts with other particles. The photon does the interacting, it doesn't control anything.

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That's the million dollar question isnt it? Perhaps why we have so many different versions in the first place.
Or you have many different peoples looking for the answers they can't ascertain themselves and ascribe it to some being. Would you agree that religion is an ever receding pocket of ignorance as Dr. Tyson asserts?
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