Boss/Lurker Hybrid Bolt (The Blurker!)

blueshifty · 06-12-2012, 10:46 AM

Perfect. I'll take one.

Look into this stuff:
http://www.sorbothane.com/StandardProduct.pdf

It is a perfect vibration damping material.

**Lurker27** · 06-12-2012, 11:03 AM

Question for those with the Boss Spacer: is it just flat on the front, or is there a lip somewhere for the spring? given the stock bolt geometry and that it works with the lurker it seems it's just flat up front. I wouldn't step on Boss' toes with a newly machined piece, but if there is an off the shelf solution I see no reason not to provide it.

SNAKESNIPER (Banned) · 06-12-2012, 11:09 AM

It's just flat.

You guys should get together and market this as a new product, it really is an awesome mod.

**Lurker27** · 06-12-2012, 11:12 AM

Or people could just add 30 cents worth of rings to my bolt that I will be including for free

SNAKESNIPER (Banned) · 06-12-2012, 11:23 AM

This will start the new Smart Parts vs Everybody patent war, updated for 2012!

blueshifty · 06-12-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurker27

Or people could just add 30 cents worth of rings to my bolt that I will be including for free

Win.

Blak Katalyst · 06-12-2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurker27

Or people could just add 30 cents worth of rings to my bolt that I will be including for free

I like this idea.

Looking at this mod, am I the only one that keeps thinking.....
"You got chocolate in my peanutbutter!"
"You got peanutbutter in my chocolate!"

**Lurker27** · 06-12-2012, 12:29 PM

Totally agree. I don't think it is harmful to boss because people will still be weirded out by the complexity of the Eigenbolt. So, I don't feel that bad about it.

blueshifty · 06-12-2012, 12:37 PM

Complexity!?! It is friggen 2 pieces + the stock spring! Lol, try shooting a clone (my main gun) if you want to see a lot of parts.

**Lurker27** · 06-12-2012, 12:49 PM

"Perceived" complexity, then. People fear what they don't understand. To be fair we did have enough spacer deseating issues early on that I tweaked the spacer design slightly. I'm of the opinion the new batch is about as perfect as it gets though.

blueshifty · 06-12-2012, 12:53 PM

Mine fit on there nice and tight... I am out of air, but I plan on tuning this weekend. I look forward to getting the extra oring too. I won't shoot my mini heavily until I get my foregrip extender though.

TheBoss33 · 06-12-2012, 12:59 PM

I can see some issues that may arise from this combination.

blueshifty · 06-12-2012, 01:17 PM

Like the spring sliding under the oring and binding? Or just generally chewing into the oring? I am sure Ryan will think about those things before putting any out.

I do like the look of your bolts too boss, but I went with what was cheaper and seemed to have more tinkering potential. (Seeing as how it is just a back-up gun.)

excope · 06-12-2012, 01:27 PM

I can't make this collaboration of parts work in my Axe at reported settings.

**Lurker27** · 06-12-2012, 01:30 PM

How far off were you?

Teahouser · 06-12-2012, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurker27

Question for those with the Boss Spacer: is it just flat on the front, or is there a lip somewhere for the spring? given the stock bolt geometry and that it works with the lurker it seems it's just flat up front. I wouldn't step on Boss' toes with a newly machined piece, but if there is an off the shelf solution I see no reason not to provide it.

The good thing about your bolt Lurker is that it uses the stock spring, which has the one end smaller than the other. This makes sure that even when the spring isn't clicked on the bolt anywhere, the delrin spacer keeps it level and stops it from shifting and deseating, and possibly scratching the inside of your body up.

If I was in the axe/mini bolt front bumper spacer design business, I'd leave the top of the spacer flat that's against the spring, but cut a quarter circle deep around the outside of the bottom side of the spacer. To act as holder for the bumper oring, it would keep it centered at all times, and stable. But that's a lot of work for something that works so simply to begin with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBoss33

I can see some issues that may arise from this combination.

From using two orings or from the spacer with the stock spring? I noticed that your spacer makes the bolt stop further back in the breech. With the stock spring and using your Boss bolt or the stock bolt, your spacer can make the bolt not uncover the bolt guide holes fully, not allowing a complete dump of air to trigger the poppet's cycle. Then I figured out Lurker's bolt is the opposite, since his bolt removes a large portion of the rear bolt sail, this means that the guide vent holes are able to dump air while his bolt is still moving forward. Using a bumper and spacer in the front of the Eiegnbolt made it so the venting occurred right when the bolt got to the end of it's movement, making the poppet cycle a bit crispier than without. This is my reasoning how the sweet spot of the back cap gets moved in to a little over 1 turn out, increasing my efficiency by almost a full Rotor!

SNAKESNIPER (Banned) · 06-12-2012, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excope

I can't make this collaboration of parts work in my Axe at reported settings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurker27

How far off were you?

.

incognito-z · 06-12-2012, 05:02 PM

I will be ordering a Boss and a Lurker bolt soon, for my own comparison. I will definitely try this and will report back.

excope · 06-12-2012, 06:05 PM

I had tried this combo once before and didn't have any luck with it at the settings I was looking to run. Since Teahouser had posted it up I thought I would try it again.

My normal set up in my Axe is, Lurker bolt, dwell at 3.5ms, 140/160 psi, and 1.5 turns out on back cap.

First attempt today was just a drop in of the extra parts, did not get a reading on the chrono, upped dwell to 5.0ms and still no reading on chrono. Next I adjusted the pressure up to 180ish, dwell back to 3.5, at velocity with good consistency but the shot quality was not as good as my original set up specs gave.

SNAKESNIPER (Banned) · 06-12-2012, 06:13 PM

What do you mean when you say you "didn't get a reading on the chrono"? Were you getting rollouts or FSDO?

Teahouser · 06-12-2012, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excope

I had tried this combo once before and didn't have any luck with it at the settings I was looking to run. Since Teahouser had posted it up I thought I would try it again.

My normal set up in my Axe is, Lurker bolt, dwell at 3.5ms, 140/160 psi, and 1.5 turns out on back cap.

First attempt today was just a drop in of the extra parts, did not get a reading on the chrono, upped dwell to 5.0ms and still no reading on chrono. Next I adjusted the pressure up to 180ish, dwell back to 3.5, at velocity with good consistency but the shot quality was not as good as my original set up specs gave.

That's pretty weird, since adding the oring and spacer doesn't really effect the bolt's friction at all. I'm running just a hair over 160psi and shooting 285fps with the back cap a bit over 1 turn out. You guys have axe's so generally they can run about 10-15psi lower than a mini and have the same fps readings because of the larger volume air chamber.

Another thing is spring tension. I'm using a mini's stock spring, which is a bit stiffer than the black axe stock spring. Lurker and I both agree that when it comes to his bolt, stiff springs are best.