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Old 05-30-2012, 06:42 AM #1
rkenders
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Techt G3/G4 bolt mod

I have been reading around about techt bolt modifications and so I opened this thread to see what people have done.

Here's what I have found in other threads so far:

For the G3 supposedly you can trim off .026" off the bolt tail and it will allow the spool valve to open a little earlier. Supposedly this will allow the gun to run at lower pressures (135-145psi) than the unmodified Techt bolt and with increased efficiency.

Can this also be done with the Techt G4 bolt? Has anyone tried it? What else have people done to their Techt bolts?

I know that you can sand/file down the bolt stop so that the bolt retracts a little further, but then Techt has already provided a slightly thinner bolt stop and shorter bolt so the bolt face clears the breach more. If your Techt bolt protrudes into the breach too far and causes balls to not drop fully into the breach, contact Techt for their shorter bolt and bolt stop. If you do shave down your bolt stop beyond the point where the back of the bolt hits the back o-ring inside the gun then the bolt will slowly chew up that o-ring. So the idea is to shave back the bolt stop so the bolt stops just short of the back o-ring.

I have a longer/old revision of the techt bolt for the G4 that causes ball/breach jams. I will take down the tail a little and also take a little off the back of the bolt to see if I can get it to clear the breach better.

Lowering your G4 or G3 Techt operating pressure bolt tail MOD:
You need to carefully file off a very small amount of the tail length. Dont scratch the tail with the file! Take off a little tiny bit at a time and then test fire the gun. You don't want to be blowing air back up the feed neck by having the spool valve open too soon. Before you begin attach the barrel, air up your gun, turn off the eyes and lay a tissue over the feed neck. Fire the gun. The tissue should not blow off the feed neck because 100% of the air is going down the barrel. If you shorten the bolt tail too much, the spool valve will open too soon and you will waste air by blowing it out the feed neck rather than down the barrel. Since the spool valve will be open longer, dwell can probably be lowered a little.


My DP G4 Techt bolt tail mod:

******If you want me to do this for you...http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...75990191******

I did the bolt tail mod and I have to tell you that I went a lot further than the .026" (.077" when I finally stopped) and never got to the 140psi operating pressures that others have gotten. That's not to say I didn't see improvement. With the stock bolt my G4 needs 200psi to get 280fps. With the unmodded Techt bolt it needs 180psi to get 280fps. With the modded bolt tail as it stands right now (see below for details) it needs 160psi to get 280fps. Since I incrementally went beyond the .026" in 3 steps I tested FPS at each step of bolt tail length removal. I can say that with each step my velocity continued to go up indicating that less air pressure was needed to fire at 280fps.

What I did:
Note: I used the same tank, barrel, gun, lube, loader and paint balls (Premium brand) for all my tests to eliminate as many variables as possible. I never touched the regulator screw after chronoing with the unmodded bolt to 280fps so that any changes had to be from the bolt tail mod.

1. I measured the bolt tail before starting with my micrometer (see below pictures) to find it's length. Then I marked off that magic .026" with a sharpie.
2. I took a 2" long piece of 3/8" dowel and wrapped masking tape around one end until I had more tape diameter than the inside diameter of the bolt front. Then I tore off 1" sections of tape until the dowel and tape diameter were a really snug fit in the bolt front. This allowed me a secure way to hold the bolt in the drill press. The bolt slides over the tape on the dowel and the bare wood end of the dowel is clamped in the drill chuck. This kept the bolt secure on the drill without any chance of damage to the bolt surfaces.
3. Next I ran the drill press at its fastest speed and used a very fine file to shorten the bolt tail length to the .026" mark.
4. Then I used a diamond sharpening stone to "finish" the grind off and to put a new bevel on the bolt tail.
5. Next I slid the bolt off the dowel/tape and hand rounded and beveled the end a little more if needed with the diamond stone.
5. Then I carefully cleaned out every tiny glittering speck of aluminum from off the bolt.
6. Since the bolt was now completely clean, it needed new lube so I put a thin coat of Militia Lube on the tail, bolt o-ring and on the bolt front. I attempted to be as consistent as possible with my application of lube so that too much or too little lube wouldn't be a variable.
7. I put the modded bolt in the gun, turned on the air and fired 20 shots or so over my chronograph. The .026" mod gave a slight increase in FPS (280 to 290 at most). It was hard to be sure since these guns aren't the most consistent.
8. I then put my unmodded bolt back in just to be sure there was a difference and I could see that I was getting about 8-10fps increase with the modded bolt.
9. Since I had already gone to the .026" mark, I went another .026" and repeated steps 3 through 6.
10. This time the gun was shooting consistently over 300fps with no regulator change or adjustment.
11. I then took off another .026, repeated the above steps and was chronoing in the 310+fps range. Considering this was a first attempt and that I had gone 3 times further than the magical .026" I decided to stop and do more tests. See the below pics. They speak volumes!!!

Techt bolt measured for the original .026"


Unmodded Techt bolt tail length


Modded Techt Bolt tail length after taking it down 3 times


Comparison of unmodded and modded bolts. You can see the length difference.


FPS with unmodded Techt bolt. Once I set the reg screw I never touched it again until I was ready to chrono with the modded bolt at 280fps so I could determine the new reg output pressure at 280fps. Look at the time in the lower left corner of the display. You can see that there is just a couple of minutes difference between this picture and the next picture. I had just enough time to swap the unmodded bolt with the modded bolt and chrono again. Obviously I checked the FPS with the stock bolt again after modding the other bolt. The gun was still shooting in the low 280's just like it was before I started.


Final FPS after 3 removals of bolt tail length. I did 20+ shots over my chrono and they varied from 309 to 321 so 317fps is kind of in the middle of that range. Again the regulator was never touched during these tests.



As you can see this is a legitimate mod. The pictures don't lie! I will take the bolt tail down further on another day. I'm fairly certain that I haven't reached the minimum bolt tail length yet. I haven't done any efficiency tests to see if that has changed. In the past with the Techt bolt I typically got around 800 shots on 3000 psi in a 68/4500 tank. My field doesn't have 4500psi because some dumb -ss blew himself up by filling his 3000psi tank to 4500psi!



Make your own pressure tester:
I found a small tapping kit for 1/8" NPT threads at the local hardware store for $10. It included a drill bit and 1/8" NPT tap. The first thing I did was drilled out the allen hole in the back cap just about 1/2" deep with the drill bit that came in the 1/8" NPT kit. You don't want to go too deep or you will compromise the strength of the stem. Then I used a 1/8" drill bit to go deep enough to meet up with the hole in the side of the back cap stem. The hole in the stem is 1/16" in diameter and goes through half way. Drilling and tapping the back cap requires a fair bit of torque and so you will need to hold the back cap in some way that doesn't damage it. My solution was to take a 5" long piece of pine lumber and drill a 1" diameter hole in the center of it. I then broke it in half along the grain. Then I put the back cap in the hole and clamped the two halves of wood around the back cap with a vise. When you thread the gauge into the back cap orient it so that when the back cap is fully screwed into the gun that the gauge is right side up. Use some blue locktite on the gauge threads to seal them and to keep it from turning in the back cap. You can now use the gauge instead of an allen wrench to remove the back cap. This MOD could be done to the Techt back cap too, but be much more careful since there is less material to work with.





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Last edited by rkenders : 06-29-2012 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:18 AM #2
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I am curious about this also.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:28 AM #3
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Hey Guys, I'm looking into this mod. If it is found that we get substantially greater efficiency we will make a design change to the g3 and g4 bolts.

But...under no circumstances can we warranty bolt heads that are modded. Please understand that there are many design aspects that we need to examine before changing anything on the bolt system will be changed.

I appreciate the the feedback from you guys on this product and we absolute will be testing this modification.

Thanks for the heads-up guys.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:42 AM #4
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Tim, i have seen 2 instances that the bolt stem broke from the main body of the bolt, now the question is, if that happens to a particular bolt and is modded, would it still be under warranty? Just want some clarification....
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:44 AM #5
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If you do change it, put something for anti-rollback on there. Maybe a pillow style bolt?
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:18 AM #6
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We would probably still warranty the bolt head with no issues. Those problems would honestly be handled on a case to case basis.

If we do change anything about the the bolts we have always offered options to our customers to retro fit or reconfigure the product.

I feel like we have always tried to take good care of the Dangerous Power community. Thanks for the kind words Sauce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by classmarcher View Post
Tim, i have seen 2 instances that the bolt stem broke from the main body of the bolt, now the question is, if that happens to a particular bolt and is modded, would it still be under warranty? Just want some clarification....
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:34 AM #7
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Tim = TechT Rocks and I've always enjoyed calling and talking "shop" with you!

TechT has a huge following in the DP community as your engine changes the marker completely! I know that TechT will do whatever it takes to make sure the customer is happy.

For paintballer's though.... we're all tinkerer's by nature. Trying to squeeze every ounce of performance out of anything we can.

Much love to TechT! (PS. I miss Beaux GREATLY though!)



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Old 05-30-2012, 12:09 PM #8
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Nice to get Techt into the discussion!!! I would like to see some real feed back on this bolt head mod from you guys. Techt rocks!!! I have 3 L7 bolts and in each case they make significant improvements over the stock gun.

For those of us with spare bolt head (me) and don't care about warranty so much, we will probably try shortening the bolt tail regardless.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:45 PM #9
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I'll ask a silly question here:

Just out of curiosity for those with the G3 and G4 TechT bolts - When the bolt is fully forward, does the bolt stem/tail actually leave the center of the bolt stop, creating a small gap between the back stem/tail of the bolt and the bolt stop itself?
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:18 PM #10
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Yes, there's a gap between the bolt stem and stop when the marker fires.

That's also the reason why people need to be careful not to take too much off the stem or the marker will end up fire before the bolt is far enough forward.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:22 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justicexd View Post
Yes, there's a gap between the bolt stem and stop when the marker fires.

That's also the reason why people need to be careful not to take too much off the stem or the marker will end up fire before the bolt is far enough forward.
Thanks.....just checking and trying to get a better understanding of your clever mod .
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Last edited by CA_Tectonics : 05-30-2012 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:26 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA_Tectonics View Post
Thanks.....just checking and trying to get a better understanding of your cleaver mod .
cleaver mod?
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:32 PM #13
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cleaver mod?
and you were even the one asking about it in theat G4 upgrades thread .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shru View Post
By shaving the bolt stem down ever so slightly, it has yielded a 35-40 fps increase over the stock techt bolt engine. All credit goes to justicexd, he likes to experiment and tinker with his own g3. He infact did this for me, he is local to me. He has also mounted a psi gauge on the back of my bolt engine.
Quote:
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Like Shru said, the stems on the g3 bolt are just a bit too long causing the marker not to dump enough air. By shaving the stem down just a bit (.026 in) you get an increase of 30-40 fps while lowering pressure to 135-145 psi. Keep in mind, these numbers are based on the marker shooting at 275-280 fps and the dwell set to 11. As far as the G4 goes, I'm not sure if this mod will work for that or not... one would think that it would...
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:39 PM #14
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Quote:
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and you were even the one asking about it in theat G4 upgrades thread .
Cleaver:

Clever:

Just sayin....
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:50 PM #15
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Quote:
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Just sayin....
Doh! ......fixed
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:19 AM #16
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TechT will always have my support. They have always taken care of me and all of the products I've purchased from them.

Best customer service I've ever gotten from any paintball company. I will continue to support them whenever a new product comes out.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:49 AM #17
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TechT will always have my support. They have always taken care of me and all of the products I've purchased from them.

Best customer service I've ever gotten from any paintball company. I will continue to support them whenever a new product comes out.
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:40 AM #18
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OK OK so we are all Techt fans...me too! My only complaint with Techt is that they make everyone else's CS look bad. Techt...your soooo bad! LOL
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:23 AM #19
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My feeble mind needs pictures. I have no clue what bolt parts are called to follow what your finding with the bolts, stock or otherwise.
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:10 PM #20
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See my original post for those much needed pictures.
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:25 PM #21
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Be careful with g4 bolt stop. If you take to much off you won't have a seal with rear breach oring. With g3 bolt stop oring is on stop, you can take some off here but you may have trouble keeping oring on stop if you take to much off. Also be aware you will have more of paintball roll back with bolt/ stop moved back. I tap my techt bolt heads with 8/32 threads right in the middle of bolt stem (drilling pilot hole with drill press to keep straight)and use nylon 8/32 threaded screws I get at lowes (hardware parts draw). I super glue disposable paintbrush foam onto nylon screw, Trim with sisors when glue's dry and install with teflon tape to prevent leaks.(A FOAM BALL CUSHION INSIDE BOLT,FOAM SHOULD BE EVEN WITH FACE OF BOLT) This Keeps your ball stack straight and upon acceleration of bolt when fired eases ball to face of bolt.Foam is soft so I assume foam compresses out of the way of air flow as pressurized air goes past/over. Sometimes they start to tear lose after awhile and you may have to cycle loader or use rip drive once or twice if foam protrudes past face of bolt and starts getting stuck under a ball that loader is trying to load. If this happens usually you will shoot foam out barrel (no big deal it's foam)then all you have left while you're playing is a bolt with a threaded nylon rod in it, no big deal keep playin.Face of rod is back from ball, if you do this right there is no contact with rod. I grind nylon screw head square so I can use needle nose pliers to install into bolt. You wrap teflon tape a certain direction starting near foam and wrap up, Thus dicharged air blows past/over wraps intead of into wraps. A good way to glue foam onto nylon screw is to lay wax paper down and roll precut foam onto screw as you glue it, usually it won't stick to wax paper. lately I've also put shrink wrap near start of were foam is glued to rod, don't go to far up or shrink wrap will get in the way of threading rod to bolt stem. I"ll try to post some pictures when I can. I work 24 hr. shifts so just got back this morning and have things to do. DO THESE MODS AT YOU'RE OWN RISK, YOU MAY RUIN YOU'RE BOLT HEAD. Attn. Techt. try making a experimental d.p. bolt engine with a bigger air can as part of rear cap. Should get lower operating pressure.PLEASE INCLUDE TAPPED PLUG FOR AIR GAUGE IN BACK CAP.

Last edited by van457 : 05-31-2012 at 01:47 PM. Reason: added info
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