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Old 05-02-2012, 11:36 AM #22
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Originally Posted by Shawn_Savage View Post
This is amazing. I can finally turn the speed down and feel more comfortable with brittle paint.

Is there a way to make it stop spinning like a rotor when there is no paint in it?

Just grab the rip drive on the bottom for a second. It'll stop when you hold it still.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:00 PM #23
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Convenient that this comes out as an "easter egg" and not as a fix for some of us that were/are having issues with the Z2. Almost my whole team has had issues with the Z2 from day one. It causes the gun to shred paint, point blank. We are aware that some people are not having any issues with the Z2, but after significant field testing, the Z2 was/is the culprit in our case. No other loader has given us this many problems and we have tried and compared them all because we wanted the Z2 to work, as it is, on paper, the best loader on the market. We used 5-6 brand new Z2's and all of them had the same effect on the gun. We switched guns (Geo, Ego, G6R, Victory, Clone, etc.) same problem. Switched paint, same problem. Tried the "Factory calibration" same problem. Pulled the loader out of the feedneck 1/4 of an inch, same problem. Switched the Z2 loader for another loader (Rotor, Vlocity, even a damn Torque) NO PROBLEMS. And now you disguise a fix as an "easter egg" C'mon man. We are paintballers NOT special education kids (well some of us might be, lol)

For those of you who are experiencing no problems with your Z2, I am glad you have a working loader. Most of my team want the Z2 to work and hopefully this "easter egg" will fix that and we might go back to the Z2. But as it stands now, most of us have already sold or traded our Z2s and went back to Rotors or other hoppers.

Not happy with Empire/Simon right now.

-Phil
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:04 PM #24
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Originally Posted by Kil187 View Post
Convenient that this comes out as an "easter egg" and not as a fix for some of us that were/are having issues with the Z2. Almost my whole team has had issues with the Z2 from day one. It causes the gun to shred paint, point blank. We are aware that some people are not having any issues with the Z2, but after significant field testing, the Z2 was/is the culprit in our case. No other loader has given us this many problems and we have tried and compared them all because we wanted the Z2 to work, as it is, on paper, the best loader on the market. We used 5-6 brand new Z2's and all of them had the same effect on the gun. We switched guns (Geo, Ego, G6R, Victory, Clone, etc.) same problem. Switched paint, same problem. Tried the "Factory calibration" same problem. Pulled the loader out of the feedneck 1/4 of an inch, same problem. Switched the Z2 loader for another loader (Rotor, Vlocity, even a damn Torque) NO PROBLEMS. And now you disguise a fix as an "easter egg" C'mon man. We are paintballers NOT special education kids (well some of us might be, lol)

For those of you who are experiencing no problems with your Z2, I am glad you have a working loader. Most of my team want the Z2 to work and hopefully this "easter egg" will fix that and we might go back to the Z2. But as it stands now, most of us have already sold or traded our Z2s and went back to Rotors or other hoppers.

Not happy with Empire/Simon right now.

-Phil
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:06 PM #25
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So you and Kee released a product without documenting how to adjust the settings that have been there from day one? And the posts so far here are positive? Wow.

Prior to today, if your Z2 wasn't working you had to sent it to Kee. Did you get tired of Z2 RMAs or what? First the Relay regulator (Axe) can't be user serviced and now you are hiding settings on the Z2. Kee as a company would rather get truck loads of Axes and Z2s sent back for "repairs" instead of just letting the player fix their own gear. What a joke.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:12 PM #26
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We have tens of thousands of people using Z2's and doing so happily without the need or desire to adjust the settings.

We have seen some people having issues breaking paint, and we have even had people send loaders back in and put them through every test imaginable without being able to find an issue with the loaders. We've run paint through that them was so fragile the guns can only just shoot it, and we have tested with Ego's, Luxe's, Axe's etc. Everything and not seen any issue that was caused solely by the loader on any of the units that were sent back.

I suspect the issue is a combination of things and in part down to the force of loader.

To give people the option of adjusting their loaders themselves I've provided this information.

If people still want to have KEE look at their loader they are very welcome to do so. We did have some loaders where the eye window was installed backwards giving a sharp edge and that would break paint. It can simply be popped out and switched around.

The regulators on the Mini and the Axe can be serviced, but we would rather do it for people to avoid them causing more issues. There are you tube video's showing people how to service the regulators if people feel that they are capable of doing it.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:14 PM #27
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Originally Posted by blklight View Post
So you and Kee released a product without documenting how to adjust the settings that have been there from day one? And the posts so far here are positive? Wow.
qft

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Originally Posted by blklight View Post
Prior to today, if your Z2 wasn't working you had to sent it to Kee. Did you get tired of Z2 RMAs or what? First the Relay regulator (Axe) can't be user serviced and now you are hiding settings on the Z2. Kee as a company would rather get truck loads of Axes and Z2s sent back for "repairs" instead of just letting the player fix their own gear. What a joke.
Dunno how true this is but a very good point.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:18 PM #28
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A fix would be a recall or replacement parts being sent out (e.g. metal feedneck upgrade on original prophecy or zick and plank kit on the ego 9). If the programming was already there to begin with it would be considered an Easter egg.

Thank you for letting us in on the secret Simon.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:21 PM #29
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:22 PM #30
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Originally Posted by Simon View Post
The regulators on the Mini and the Axe can be serviced, but we would rather do it for people to avoid them causing more issues. There are you tube video's showing people how to service the regulators if people feel that they are capable of doing it.
If you intended for players to service the Relay why not make it easier to open? Also, how about release another "easter egg" of a Relay parts diagram so someone doesn't have to watch a YouTube video to service and reassemble one. Not to mention order replacement parts.

This is straight from the AXE user's manual:
"Warning: Do not take the regulator apart; it is not designed to be user serviceable.
Damage to the regulator will not be covered under warranty.
"

Anyway, back on topic, if I still owned a Z2 I would be pretty frustrated to know it took almost 9 months after being debuted to release this information to the general public.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:28 PM #31
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Originally Posted by calidrifter View Post
A fix would be a recall or replacement parts being sent out (e.g. metal feedneck upgrade on original prophecy or zick and plank kit on the ego 9). If the programming was already there to begin with it would be considered an Easter egg.

Thank you for letting us in on the secret Simon.
This is a fix disguised as an Easter egg, please re-read:

Quote:
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We have seen some people having issues breaking paint,...

I suspect the issue is a combination of things and in part down to the force of loader.

To give people the option of adjusting their loaders themselves I've provided this information.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:33 PM #32
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Originally Posted by calidrifter View Post
A fix would be a recall or replacement parts being sent out (e.g. metal feedneck upgrade on original prophecy or zick and plank kit on the ego 9). If the programming was already there to begin with it would be considered an Easter egg.

Thank you for letting us in on the secret Simon.
If enough people didn't complain about shredding paint, we would have never known about this...them releasing it to the general public is a "fix." Never noticed how every pro Z2 works flawlessly? Yet people buy them off the pro shop's shelves and they smash paintballs?
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:39 PM #33
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:54 PM #34
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This is a fix disguised as an Easter egg, please re-read:
There is no fix for everyone's paint.

This was already in existence, and thus as easter egg.

How many revisions did the rotor go through?

Mhmmm

Every product can have issues whether perceived, user error, or otherwise legitimate.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:07 PM #35
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if I still owned a Z2 I would be pretty frustrated to know it took almost 9 months after being debuted to release this information to the general public.
Would it have been better if I hadn't ever released this information? It was a company decision to keep the loader simple and not try to confuse people with the ability to adjust settings.

It was my decision to try and help a small number of people by showing them how to adjust their own loaders if they want to.

I'm trying to do the best thing by our customers. Please tell me what you would have preferred the situation to be so we can take it into account in the future.

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Never noticed how every pro Z2 works flawlessly? Yet people buy them off the pro shop's shelves and they smash paintballs?
Almost every single pro loader is using out of the box settings. Every pro player when given a loader is given it in stock form. If it was changed, which is very unlikely, it would have been by a tech. It's a simple thing to check someone's settings so feel free to ask a pro what settings his loader is on and take a look. Most pro players when made aware that the settings on a loader could be changed put them as fast as they can . One of my frustrations in loaders and gun's when I am actually trying to teach them that tuning their equipment down will make it more gentle on paint.

The way we get "out of the box" settings is to test them in as many conditions as possible and then make those the stock settings.

Very few pro players know how to adjust or look after their equipment themselves. They are worse (by far) than rec players of players in the lower divisions.

Again we have tens of thousands of loaders out in play on stock settings with no issues. The loaders I used to shoot ultra evil and all of our other paint almost every single day in testing, are on stock settings. In fact I ONLY recommend someone change them if they are having a genuine issue that isn't being caused by the paint or the guns ball detents which are the first things to check.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:19 PM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Would it have been better if I hadn't ever released this information? It was a company decision to keep the loader simple and not try to confuse people with the ability to adjust settings.

It was my decision to try and help a small number of people by showing them how to adjust their own loaders if they want to.

I'm trying to do the best thing by our customers. Please tell me what you would have preferred the situation to be so we can take it into account in the future.



Almost every single pro loader is using out of the box settings. Every pro player when given a loader is given it in stock form. If it was changed, which is very unlikely, it would have been by a tech. It's a simple thing to check someone's settings so feel free to ask a pro what settings his loader is on and take a look. Most pro players when made aware that the settings on a loader could be changed put them as fast as they can . One of my frustrations in loaders and gun's when I am actually trying to teach them that tuning their equipment down will make it more gentle on paint.

The way we get "out of the box" settings is to test them in as many conditions as possible and then make those the stock settings.

Very few pro players know how to adjust or look after their equipment themselves. They are worse (by far) than rec players of players in the lower divisions.

Again we have tens of thousands of loaders out in play on stock settings with no issues. The loaders I used to shoot ultra evil and all of our other paint almost every single day in testing, are on stock settings. In fact I ONLY recommend someone change them if they are having a genuine issue that isn't being caused by the paint or the guns ball detents which are the first things to check.

Never had an issue with my loader. You did a great thing by releasing these details. Everyone has their opinion and mine hasn't changed. I will shoot a z2 over any other loader on the market and I won't have issues with it either.
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:28 PM #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Would it have been better if I hadn't ever released this information? It was a company decision to keep the loader simple and not try to confuse people with the ability to adjust settings.

It was my decision to try and help a small number of people by showing them how to adjust their own loaders if they want to.

I'm trying to do the best thing by our customers. Please tell me what you would have preferred the situation to be so we can take it into account in the future.



Almost every single pro loader is using out of the box settings. Every pro player when given a loader is given it in stock form. If it was changed, which is very unlikely, it would have been by a tech. It's a simple thing to check someone's settings so feel free to ask a pro what settings his loader is on and take a look. Most pro players when made aware that the settings on a loader could be changed put them as fast as they can . One of my frustrations in loaders and gun's when I am actually trying to teach them that tuning their equipment down will make it more gentle on paint.

The way we get "out of the box" settings is to test them in as many conditions as possible and then make those the stock settings.

Very few pro players know how to adjust or look after their equipment themselves. They are worse (by far) than rec players of players in the lower divisions.

Again we have tens of thousands of loaders out in play on stock settings with no issues. The loaders I used to shoot ultra evil and all of our other paint almost every single day in testing, are on stock settings. In fact I ONLY recommend someone change them if they are having a genuine issue that isn't being caused by the paint or the guns ball detents which are the first things to check.
A few things just don't add up. I am still holding on to hope that this will work because I like the feel of the Z2 better than the rotor. However, it does not make sense that you claim out of the box settings and claim all of these brittle paint tests yet on a brand new out of the box 2.1 used a brand new out of the box Z2, and blended 5-6 pods of all-star, switched to a Rotor and shot the remaining case, plus another case with no issues. It held true for several other markers, through several different guns.

I find it HIGHLY unlikely that my teammates and myself are the only ones out of the "tens of thousands" that you say are working without problems. If this is such a small problem, there wouldn't be discussions about adding rubber bands to the feednecks to create better spacing for ball alignment in the breech.

Hopefully you can shed some light on this, other than saying ball detents.
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:39 PM #38
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Wow, some of you are just ungrateful a'holes.

People are having problems, Simon gives us a possible fix. Now you get mad??

My Z2 worked perfectly out of the box until I unknowingly shot a case of really old paint. That's 8-ish months of perfect operation. As with all things paintball, the paint itself is the ultimate variable in the "will my gear work flawlessly" equation.

I, for one am grateful to Simon for telling us about these settings. All you people complaining about him not releasing them sooner have to understand that Simon doesn't own Kee. Sometimes things like voided warranties for certain parts exist for a reason, being they don't want every 13 year old who has a few tools thinking they can service something and then when it breaks, Kee has to replace it.
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:43 PM #39
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A few things just don't add up. I am still holding on to hope that this will work because I like the feel of the Z2 better than the rotor. However, it does not make sense that you claim out of the box settings and claim all of these brittle paint tests yet on a brand new out of the box 2.1 used a brand new out of the box Z2, and blended 5-6 pods of all-star, switched to a Rotor and shot the remaining case, plus another case with no issues. It held true for several other markers, through several different guns.

I find it HIGHLY unlikely that my teammates and myself are the only ones out of the "tens of thousands" that you say are working without problems. If this is such a small problem, there wouldn't be discussions about adding rubber bands to the feednecks to create better spacing for ball alignment in the breech.

Hopefully you can shed some light on this, other than saying ball detents.
Reaching for straws here, eh?

I love it when people are trying to find fault in a company so they start subtly changing the things said by the rep to back-up their claims. Shows a lot of class and an intimate understanding of the product and company in question.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:37 PM #40
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I've shot over 10 of ultra evil and have never had a call blend or break in my z2. And its on stock settings
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:04 PM #41
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I will be at Top Gun NJ this weekend too for Tunaball if anyone is in that area.
I'll be at top gun sunday with my team. I think we're using the main psp field for practice. I'll be reppin' my Invert OT Army jersey, look forward to seein you there!

On topic, glad we can change the settings, always wondered why we couldn't change them when we could do so on our v1's. Never had any problems with my z2, just the darn speed-feeds keep breaking on me.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:07 PM #42
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I'll be there on Friday afternoon, Sat, and maybe Sunday morning... Hopefully our paths will cross.

The newest speed feeds have the magnets molded in and are made from a completely different hard material so they shouldn't break like the old ones did.
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