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Old 12-28-2003, 10:52 PM #1
diaster
 
 
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Day wasted, new Diadem eats balls

These are all facts.
I bought a Diadem for Christmas.
1. Out of the box the gun leaked half my 68-4500 bottle out the barrel. Called AM they said remove the volumizer and check inside. It took pliers to loosen it, once I loosen it a tiny bit the air leak stopped.
2. Test firing the gun it chopped balls. I looked inside and the left side ball detent had no ball or spring. Tracer Paintball gave me one, shoulda been there in the first place.
3. Bought a case of Hellfire paint for 60 bucks. Paid $20 to play at the field, spent all day trying to adjust the gun. I went thru 1200 balls, chopped about a hundred of em. The field tech helped me out, said my air ram valve in the front was set way to high, (I ahdn't touched it) causing the ram to hit the ball to hard. He turned it out and it stopped chopping but the balls went 30 feet. So starting at 0 velocity setting, (screw all the way out), I adjusted the regulator to get the velocity up. I had the adjustment screw into the torpedo about half an inch. To get the ball speed past 170 I had to adjust the ram valve on the front in. When the ball speed got up to 250, they started breaking again. My son shot the same balls and hopper in his $300 TES and never broke a ball. His velocity was around 270. Another friend let me shoot his angel. I used my balls, in his stock angel barrel and I had no breaks. I used his GAP paint in mine marker, more breaks again. To get the balls on a target 50 feet away, I had to lob them cause my pressure was set so low as not to break them.
Compared to the angel, In had two thrids the range and halfd the accuracy. The balls were not tight in the barrel either, they rolled out. Sometimes I had one roll out after a shot. Other tiems I had two balls in the barrel
4. Cleaning the gun tonite, the rear lower ram was in so tight it took pliers wrapped in cloth to get it off.

bottom line, this gun SUCKS. I never got on the field once today. The one time I tried, figured I would just give it a go with a 220 velocity, it chopped at the chrono, I gave up and walked back off the field. Incidently the chops are at the breech, not in the barrel. Some times getting goo into the hopper.

You know I figure a gun might need tweaking once in a while, but not an all day event for a $500 gun. The $1200 Angel and the $300 TES, heck even the $50 walmart guns did better than I with no tweaking at all. $35 in paint and $20 field fee with not one game, a full tank of air and 6 hours of fiddling and the gun never performed.

anyone out there got a clue as what to do now? I don't even want the gun anymore after today, I mean this REALLY SUCKED!!!
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Old 12-28-2003, 11:38 PM #2
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some guns are lemons...you always always always adjust a new gun...most guns do not ship adjusted

i say you play around with it, mabye you got a lemon, call AM and then take it out to play again...

the gun rocked at cup...thats all i have to say
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Old 12-29-2003, 12:21 AM #3
Draknes
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That really sucks. Hopefully you can get it all figured out. Im sure if you call Ernest he can help you set it up step by step.
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Old 12-29-2003, 12:43 AM #4
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I agree, you may just gotten a lemon and just contact AM because its still under warranty. Either way, sounds like you sweet spotted your reg wrong unless i'm not clear on what you mean. You should have your velocity adjuster set to allow all the air out. Then adjust your reg. Here's a link to full text of it:

http://www.docsmachine.com/tech/pressure.html
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Old 12-29-2003, 02:41 AM #5
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I do not have an external velocity adjuster, as on spyder blowbacks. I have the regulator (torpedo) adjuster that has a small hex adjsutment in the bottom. screw it in, bps go higher. I also have a pneumatic bolt with a cocker style pneumatic controller on the front under the volumizer. It has a hex adjustment on its front end. screw it in and the pressure applied to drive the bolt forward is increased, (this is a blow forward gun with a spring return to cocked position)
It was firinmg very loud and the field tech said it was pushing the bolt into the ball so hard it would break. So i backed it and the torpedo out all the way. Then turn the pneumatic back in until it moved the bolt. Then I adjusted the torpedo in to bring the ball speed up. At one point the speed was at 200 and would go no higher and the hex adjuster was buried in the torpedo. So I started to adjust the cocker pnuematic thingy to get the ball speed higher, which it did and it broke balls like crazy. Any lower and I had an artillary piece (as in lob the ball)
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Old 12-29-2003, 10:38 AM #6
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Please give us a call at 866-478-2255 and we will get this taken care of. We have not had any serious issues with ball breaks when the marker is set right, and I am sure that we can get this resolved,

For reference we will need to know --
1) What hopper are you using?
2) What BPS is your marker set at?
3) What dwell is you marker set at?
4) What air source are you using?
5) What fire mode were you using?

I am confident that we can get your marker 100% up to where it should be. We thouroughly tested each and every Diadem that has shipped out of here with over 500 rounds shot through them on several different firing modes and velocities. Nothing that was chopping paint was allowed to ship -- so we do know that your marker can get to the point of perfect performance -- because we have done it once at least, already.
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Old 12-29-2003, 01:07 PM #7
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Disaster, you know your "volumizer" or "lp chamber" what you will, do you use a hex wrench to adjust it, and there is a whole in the middle of it? If so then you do have a the 2nd type of system that in the page i said is known as a "choke" system i think.
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Old 12-29-2003, 06:00 PM #8
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Tried to call AM today to see if they could help... tech is on vacation until tomorrow. Guess I'll give Tracer Paintball a call, they sold it to me are supposed to be certified by AM
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Old 12-29-2003, 10:15 PM #9
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Tracer paintball is a great company to work with, i bought my diadem there and it shot GREAT, unfortunately i had to sell it...money needed to go elsewhere...i know if you talk to the tech that worked on my gun (Chris P) he will set you straight.
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Old 12-29-2003, 11:59 PM #10
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Yeh, I talked to them. I think it was Chris on the phone. I'll take it in tomorrow when they open. He said they'll make it right. Since they are a few blocks from my house it is convenient. If these markers shot great from the factory, I wonder what happened to mine.

no dwell changes, 15 bps on the trigger firing in semi auto with a crossfire tank and an egg 2, to answer AM Steve's questions.
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Old 12-30-2003, 02:27 PM #11
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Yep it was me on the phone. Bring it to me and ill do my best to make it a newb schooling machine gun.


we've got a compressor and paint, ill make sure you dont have to waste more tuning it.
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Old 12-30-2003, 02:36 PM #12
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If the Egg isn't dialed right, it can actually feed considerably less than 15 BPS. That could be part of the problem. Couldn't say for sure without more information though -- we maxed our egg out at 15 almost every time.
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Old 12-31-2003, 12:28 AM #13
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Update!

As of 8pm pacfic time your diadem was blasting paint at 280 fps +- 4. I figured out why your pressure needed to be so high. The piston in the torpedo reg was upside down severly restricing gas flow. I had to lower your LPR to avoid massive amounts of trigger bounce. The only chop i had was when I beat the revvy i was using for chronoing the gun.


In order to do this testing I'm trying to recreate your day. So far i have: your diadem, a TI boomy, 68/45 crossfire and an egg. What paint were you using? Todays results were attained with Worr competition, i want to use exactly what you did.


I will continue to work on this tommarrow, i am not satisfied until im 100 percent sure your gun is in tip top shape. Also when i took apart tyhe gun i didnt find anything wrong except the reg piston in the torpedo, and i just lubed some 0-rings inside. All in all things are looking good. Ill be in the shop tomarrow from about 10 am till whenever im done so feel free to call then, or post stuff here.

Steve, Ernest can you guys think of anything else i should check?
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Old 12-31-2003, 10:03 AM #14
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Check the gnomes inside. Make sure they've been fed! Or else problems will happen all over again.
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Old 12-31-2003, 10:22 AM #15
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Way ahead of you there. I stuffed some pork rinds down the feed tube.
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Old 12-31-2003, 11:47 AM #16
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Pork rinds??? How 'bout dem Meph burgers??? I gotta admit, the first time I shot a Diadem, it made a believer out of me. I field tested one of them in the 7 man at IAO this year and it just owns.
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Old 12-31-2003, 12:42 PM #17
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Chris

I was using the stock barrel, the Diadem, 4000 lbs of air from 45-6800 Crossfire tank, an egg 2 and a half a case of the orange paint. The stuff Sean likes, Hellfire I think it is.

According to the manual and the common industry, that marker should be able to shoot at least 300 fps. I had lubed the bolt, before use and both it and the ram after use.

I had many occasion of duel ball feeds shooting 2 on one trigger cycle (at same time on one bolt movement), at some points after firing if i tipped the gun down a ball would roll out of the barrel. I figured the ball detent should have prevented that. Of note when a ball broke I would then sqeeggee the barrel and try again. I had dissassembled it and cleaned every part including detents 4 or 5 times.

Finally I have to wonder about quality control for this marker. No left ball detent, volumizer and rear ram - torque wrench tight, and now the piston was upside down. So either AM let one slip or someone else monkeyed with this marker before I got it.

I do thank you for jumping right on this and I'll call you today. I am on duty till tomorrow when I am sure you guys are closed.

To the rest of you, and Steve from AM thanks for jumping in here and tryin to help out. This is a great forum peopled with great individuals. I am sorry I had something this negative but valleys do make the mtns look better. here's hoping the rest is all good!

Happy New Year to you all !!!
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Old 12-31-2003, 01:21 PM #18
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I thought you were using the TI like in your sig. Okay ill test it with the stock barrel and hellfire. I'm at work right now so give me a call, ill be all over this today.


Oh, as far as i know we will be open tomarrow.
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Old 01-01-2004, 12:56 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sturm707
Pork rinds??? How 'bout dem Meph burgers???
Not as good as Munky-Brain cuisine!
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Old 01-01-2004, 09:47 PM #20
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I don't think AM assembles the torpedo regs so that would be Bob Longs fault.

Anyways I am not a fan of the stock detents, I had one of mine pop out(the ball and spring) the first time I tested it out. Wes put the air-smiths touch to it(he's pti certified) and laid a hammer to the "broken" ball detent and fixed it. The metal apears to be little thin on the lip.

Also let me rant again about someones choice of red loctiting the statinless steel braided line into a knurled 1/8 to asa adapter, now it looks good and its not going to leak or anything but no way is that thing going to come apart because nothing can grip the adapter with sufficient force to remove it without damaging it cosmetically. Please Action Markers re-think this design. Using teflon tape, blue loctite, or a 6 sided adapted would solve this annoyance.
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Old 01-02-2004, 12:18 AM #21
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sorry but AM guns take angle and cocker detents?

And i was just looking at some angel vert adapters and those look like they would fit on a senti or am i just stupid.
And i know that this doesnt belong here but that one guy was talking about detents and this lead to that and...
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