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Old 04-29-2012, 10:15 PM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OoZoo View Post
A lot of negative nancys in here lol

Paintball will go no where if the players think negatively like this.
Negativism and realism are two different things. These people are just being honest, which is what a thread like this needs. Not a bunch of people saying, "Yeah!!! Of course it can be done!" It may not be able to be done. It isn't a simple "yes it will happen" answer.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:57 PM #23
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It damn well better or I'm going to be one grumpy old man.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:34 AM #24
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Baring the cost aspect it really isn't interesting to watch in the current format. I'm a long time player and I don't watch full matches because I get bored watching people sit in their bunkers for most of the point until the numbers get whittled down and then run through the last guy. That's fun when you're on the field, it's not that interesting to watch.

I do think the Race-to system and newer score keeping in tournament ball encourages more aggressive movement and therefore is more fun to watch but even still I'd rather play than watch. The average nonplayer probably wouldn't want to.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:55 AM #25
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It's like nascar, it's boring watching the cars turn left for 5 hours to alot of people. Most fans are there for the wreck, if they admit it or not. Watching xball is like that.. waiting for the goggle shot. or the guy leaping over the snake to rain the pain down on the unsuspecting player.

You would need such a massive production setup to get decent footage of matches, which are either over so fast you don't form a connection with the players, or are stagnant which causes the lost interest.

Woodsball/scenerio would be cool to watch, but again the production costs would be insane, if you could keep the "story" or mission coherent long enough.

I say if you have the money, get a GoPro or similar device, trying setting something up with the thought of marketable appeal, and push it to the web..

...and there should be more streaming broadcasts of events.
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:39 AM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNAKESNIPER View Post
The most logical avenue for this is what the PSP is doing right now. The X-Games is also the most logical starting point for pro paintball to move towards. The exposure and interest from the X-Games would trickle down to regional leagues and local shops.
The chances of paintball being in the X-Games are extremely slim for 2 main reasons.
1) There aren't currently any true team sports in the X-Games. (rally drivers have a co-driver, but I'd say that's a little different.)

2) Every sport in the X-Games involves using a modified mode of transportation for competition (bungee jumping would be the one exception to that, but is no longer included in the games).

So paintball doesn't fit either of those criterium. Plus it's really not all that extreme, as much as people like to think it is.

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Originally Posted by tlmiller View Post
EXACTLY.

Until they come up with a format that:

A. doesn't handicap those that are truly gifted (everyone set at the same bps)
B. Is easier for the "layperson" to understand
C. Is more exciting to watch

You'll never see paintball get huge contracts because you won't have the big $$$ of broadcast rights.
I agree with this except for point A. Finger dexterity is NOT an athletic gift. Sorry, it's just not. Plus much more athleticism is needed to win a game where you can't just rely on your back players laying down crazy fast lanes. It's basically the same as auto racing having a standard chasis from which the drivers must build their car.


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my point was if a player was taking more credit then he deserved in a match. for the most part its easy to tell how they are doing, but how do you compare 2 people who dont play against eachother on whose better without opinions? at some point you need facts if your going to get a **** load of money for it.

imagine if a sport like hockey never had stats, it may look like a guy is doing good, but he may never actually be a part of any goals. so you could say this group of players is better then that group, but you wouldnt be able to separate the players much more from there on who should be the first guy in the draft or for all stars and who should be in after a few rounds
Have you ever watched much hockey? It's relatively easy to tell who is influencing the movement of the puck and the game without stats.
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:25 AM #27
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Biggest problem with trying to take paintball mainstream is that to go mainstream it must be marketable to more than just those who play. And when it comes to watching it Live it just plain and simple isn't. The biggest problem is that there is no focal point in a paintball game. There is no one place for the camera to focus on. No single perspective for viewing audiences. What televised sport can say the same? Even in racing they cover the leaders of the pack. Those trailing behind get no coverage. Football, basketball, hockey, etc.....the focal point is the ball. The very nature of paintball makes it unwatchable for a Live televised audience. The best you could do is create highlight clips.
And think about these filming wise, how much of a disadvantage is it for a player in speedball to have a camera man on the sideline pointing a lens at him giving away his position? Say you are in the snake trying to make a hard move on an unsuspecting player. That cameraman looking for the shot could ruin games for you.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:23 AM #28
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Paintball is more expensive than other extreme sports and for the most part less entertaining to watch. People who are into paintball can easily enjoy watching it, but people who aren't have a harder time getting into it. Unlike lets just say snowboarding you can watch it and be like HOLY **** and think its cool. In order for paintball to go anywhere there needs to be something changed to paint where it can be made cheaper and still have a very high quality so then people could use it in tournaments. Also it takes someone going out and trying to get paintball on TV again or have it apart of other things like maybe the x games? that way it could expand
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:34 AM #29
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Quote:
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Paintball is more expensive than other extreme sports and for the most part less entertaining to watch. People who are into paintball can easily enjoy watching it, but people who aren't have a harder time getting into it. Unlike lets just say snowboarding you can watch it and be like HOLY **** and think its cool. In order for paintball to go anywhere there needs to be something changed to paint where it can be made cheaper and still have a very high quality so then people could use it in tournaments. Also it takes someone going out and trying to get paintball on TV again or have it apart of other things like maybe the x games? that way it could expand
Problem there, as I was eluding too in my post, the core of what paintball is is what makes it fun to play but boring to watch. To make it entertaining it needs to have a singular focal point. Somewhere viewers could focus while watching to see all of the action. But as thats not how paintball operates you are always stuck with the same problem.
It doesn't matter how you structure the tourneys. How you set the rules. Because the main problem is that its not something the average person can watch and follow.

I've tried watching when it was being broadcast live via webcast. As much as I absolutely love paintball I could only watch about 5 minutes before I couldn't take it anymore. Imagine the regular person. As a matter of fact imagine the regular person who isn't even really interested in speedball to begin with. Because remember its woodsball that always has and always will keep the sport alive.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:36 AM #30
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:46 AM #31
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Originally Posted by NWilliams View Post
Negativism and realism are two different things. These people are just being honest, which is what a thread like this needs. Not a bunch of people saying, "Yeah!!! Of course it can be done!" It may not be able to be done. It isn't a simple "yes it will happen" answer.
Negative comments = negativism

Last time I checked, negative = negative

If some surfers can screw wheels to a piece of wood, do some flips and become millionaires, so can some guys with good aim and decent paint shooting mechanism.

So lets be realistic
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:21 AM #32
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This topic:


All sports have the potential to get as far as any other. It just takes a long time. Paintball finally found it's staple tournament style in Speedball. We've only been using speedball for a little over a decade.

Look how long it took skateboarding, snowboarding, and other extreme sports to get real recognition?
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:59 AM #33
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Originally Posted by o5pr3y View Post
This topic:

All sports have the potential to get as far as any other. It just takes a long time. Paintball finally found it's staple tournament style in Speedball. We've only been using speedball for a little over a decade.

Look how long it took skateboarding, snowboarding, and other extreme sports to get real recognition?
Potential is an easy word to throw around however your statement is false.
You mention snowboarding. Snowboarding truly came into existence in the late 70s. But for arguments sake lets say 1975. By 1998 it was a recognized Olympic sport. That's 23 years to be recognized by the Olympics. It was already an X-game sport since the very first Winter X-Games in 1997.

Paintball was born in 1981. This is when the first actual game is said to have been played. 31 years later (2012) paintball is neither included in the X-games or the Olympics. Neither does it get the same respect as Snowboarding, Skateboarding or other extreme sports even though it annually boasts statisitcs of having more participants each year.

So when someone posted here about being realistic....yeah you all need to be. Paintball is not going to become the sport that other extreme sports have become. Why? Because the nature of the sport is to shoot people with guns....PERIOD. You can try to sugarcoat it however you want. You can try to get all Albert Einstein-ish about how the operation of a paintball marker differs from the operation of a real gun. But at the end of the day people recognize that paintball markers are shaped/modeled in the likeness of guns. You have a trigger, a firing chamber, a barrel. You point and aim at your opposition. You eliminate them by firing a projectile at them. All the techni-colored marker and jerseys. All the fine space-gun milling. All of that will never change the way the sport is seen.

You can make the argument, "Boxing is a huge sport and its in the Olympics. Its violent." And you are tight. It, along with MMA and Martial Arts, are basically Gladiator sports. But they too have their opposition. However unfortunately for us we live in a world where actual gun violence attributes to far to many deaths; be it criminal activity on the streets to wars between countries. So any sport that in any way mimicks gun violence is not going to be received to well. Truthfully we should all be dancing in the streets happy paintball has even made it this far. Happy America isn't like some other countries where you are required to have a gun permit to own a paintball marker. Or where they heavily restrict just how fast a paintball can be fired; based off the energy produced from it.

Some of you are really going to be upset about what I just wrote. You aren't going to like it. Thats fine. Makes it no less true.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:34 AM #34
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Problem with paintball is the cheating that is so rampant... Many of the bigtime videos show "pro's" wiping... And the leagues, and sponsors let them get away with it.

You can't have a "sport" when you can cheat so easily and get away with it at a professional level. The ENTIRE point of the sport is to shoot the other guy first. But, if he can just wipe off the hit, or claim "bounce" then really what is the point? It is the best actor, not athlete at that point...

So players shoot MORE paint, so that it is harder to wipe off 5 hits than that one...

And it trickles down to the rec ball field where players choose which hits "count" and which don't... "well, he was too far away for that to count, so I'll just wipe it off".

Or, "everyone cheats it is part of the game".

Until you get guys with character that play with honor it will always be a "hobby" not a sport where a large segment of the participants cheat to win.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:54 AM #35
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Problem with paintball is the cheating that is so rampant... Many of the bigtime videos show "pro's" wiping... And the leagues, and sponsors let them get away with it.

You can't have a "sport" when you can cheat so easily and get away with it at a professional level. The ENTIRE point of the sport is to shoot the other guy first. But, if he can just wipe off the hit, or claim "bounce" then really what is the point? It is the best actor, not athlete at that point...

So players shoot MORE paint, so that it is harder to wipe off 5 hits than that one...

And it trickles down to the rec ball field where players choose which hits "count" and which don't... "well, he was too far away for that to count, so I'll just wipe it off".

Or, "everyone cheats it is part of the game".

Until you get guys with character that play with honor it will always be a "hobby" not a sport where a large segment of the participants cheat to win.
The thing is that cheating does happen in virtually every other sport. The reason it is a bigger problem in paintball is the same reason that paintball is hard to spectate...too much happening all at the same time. From a spectator's standpoint, it's hard to follow everything that is happeing at the same time and from a refereeing standpoint, it's the same thing...too much happening at the same time at different areas of the field. Unless you have more referees on the field than players, they are going to miss a lot. The fact that teams can create distractions and things happen very quickly in paintball makes it even harder. This is another reason paintball will never be taken too seriously by organizations like the IOC.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:23 PM #36
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Originally Posted by FreeEnterprise View Post
Problem with paintball is the cheating that is so rampant... Many of the bigtime videos show "pro's" wiping... And the leagues, and sponsors let them get away with it.
Let me see if I can find my most recent rant on why cheating in paintball is not a big deal...

Oh! Here it is... This came from a "What Would You Change About Paintball" thread, right after the obligatory post about, "If paintball had less cheaters we would be so much better off and all of the other problems with presenting the game to a mass audience would magically solve themselves."
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I have to (partially) disagree with that.

Let's consider the other so-called "mainstream" sports in America. Major League Baseball was never bigger than during the so-called "Steroids Era" when the entire sport was full of players on the juice. Fans ate it up. NFL football, flags get thrown every game for linemen holding, or personal fouls etc. etc. The NFL is still growing. The NBA certainly hasn't eliminated the "Hard Foul" from their game, players even do it intentionally. Meanwhile, fans don't cry about it. The NHL, guys end up in the penalty box every game. Why is that? Because they played by the rules and were rewarded with a bit of downtime? Nope. Soccer, you've got to practically mug somebody to get carded, and often times players get away with fouls and other "dirty" plays that the referee on the filed might not see.

I just don't see "cheating" such as it is being that much of a detriment to the game as a product being shown to a mass "TV" type audience. If you had two teams cheat like crazy through a Pro-game and put it on TV, I doubt that any non-player watching would even be able to process that the infractions had even occurred without being told or shown. They're too busy trying to figure out what exactly is going on in the first place.

At the local level, of course we need more players to have a "grow the game" type mindset rather than the "win at all costs" mindset that some guys exhibit.
People see cheating of one type or another in almost every other mainstream sport, on a PER GAME (Baseball perhaps being the exception) basis. Hell, the NHL had to suspend just about everything that moved in the first round of the play-offs this season just to stop players from being injured on intentional dirty hits. Cheating in a sport does not necessarily make it unpalatable for the general public.

The biggest problem paintball has with finding a mainstream audience is ignorance and apathy. The game, as currently presented, is not particularly compelling to anyone, whether they are a long time player or have never heard of paintball before in their life.

Worse, paintball productions are not well funded or equipped enough to make use of the copious amounts of downtime during a given match. Consider the way baseball and football take the large amounts of downtime inherent in both games for replay, or check-ins with other matches in progress. Golf switches between several featured groups so that we don't have to watch 4 guys walk 300yds. to where their tee-shots landed. Paintball is not yet in a position to do that.

To the point and purpose of this thread, I think it depends on your definition of "Somewhere." I'd like to think that paintball will grow to the point that we can have true professional teams and players within the next couple decades. Maybe not big money contracts, but at least to the point where these guys can live and play without having to worry about bouncing next month's rent check. I believe Lasoya played for 6-figures back in the mid 2000's, I seem to remember that Ollie Lang's deal with Dye was similar money-wise. The potential is there, the game just needs to keep on moving forward, "slow and steady wins the race," even if we don't like to, or want to wait.

Will we see paintball go "Mainstream?" Probably not any time soon. There would have to be radical changes almost across the board for paintball to reach into MLB/NFL/NBA or even NHL territory. You never know though, American Football (for example) took a long time to become the game we see today, for all we know these are the "Leather Helmet" days of paintball, and there are fantastic, and unimaginable changes still in the works for us.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:25 PM #37
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I believe Lasoya played for 6-figures back in the mid 2000's, I seem to remember that Ollie Lang's deal with Dye was similar money-wise.
Lasoya played for 6-figures? Hmmmm....I dont know about that. From everything I've ever heard Ollie is by far the highest paid contracted player and it was a 3-year contract for 300K. Supposedly that was considered an unbelievable contract for a paintball player
Someone else heard otherwise?
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:55 PM #38
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I seem to remember hearing that he had some sort of deal with Richmond Italia where he was getting low to mid 100's/year. Obviously, that was during the boom years when the sport was flush with money, and LaSoya was at the peak of his notoriety / marketability.

I know for sure that he was the highest paid player in the game during that time. Maybe someone can back me up on this...otherwise I'll have to do actual research, and that's far too much work.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:58 PM #39
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Guess we just need to wait and see, paintball used to be on tv so maybe it will be again
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:45 AM #40
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Guess we just need to wait and see, paintball used to be on tv so maybe it will be again
I remember that.
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:27 AM #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coenen View Post
Let me see if I can find my most recent rant on why cheating in paintball is not a big deal...

Oh! Here it is... This came from a "What Would You Change About Paintball" thread, right after the obligatory post about, "If paintball had less cheaters we would be so much better off and all of the other problems with presenting the game to a mass audience would magically solve themselves."
People see cheating of one type or another in almost every other mainstream sport, on a PER GAME (Baseball perhaps being the exception) basis. Hell, the NHL had to suspend just about everything that moved in the first round of the play-offs this season just to stop players from being injured on intentional dirty hits. Cheating in a sport does not necessarily make it unpalatable for the general public.

The biggest problem paintball has with finding a mainstream audience is ignorance and apathy. The game, as currently presented, is not particularly compelling to anyone, whether they are a long time player or have never heard of paintball before in their life.

Worse, paintball productions are not well funded or equipped enough to make use of the copious amounts of downtime during a given match. Consider the way baseball and football take the large amounts of downtime inherent in both games for replay, or check-ins with other matches in progress. Golf switches between several featured groups so that we don't have to watch 4 guys walk 300yds. to where their tee-shots landed. Paintball is not yet in a position to do that.

To the point and purpose of this thread, I think it depends on your definition of "Somewhere." I'd like to think that paintball will grow to the point that we can have true professional teams and players within the next couple decades. Maybe not big money contracts, but at least to the point where these guys can live and play without having to worry about bouncing next month's rent check. I believe Lasoya played for 6-figures back in the mid 2000's, I seem to remember that Ollie Lang's deal with Dye was similar money-wise. The potential is there, the game just needs to keep on moving forward, "slow and steady wins the race," even if we don't like to, or want to wait.

Will we see paintball go "Mainstream?" Probably not any time soon. There would have to be radical changes almost across the board for paintball to reach into MLB/NFL/NBA or even NHL territory. You never know though, American Football (for example) took a long time to become the game we see today, for all we know these are the "Leather Helmet" days of paintball, and there are fantastic, and unimaginable changes still in the works for us.
My thoughts exactly.
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:43 PM #42
BostonPB86
 
 
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston, MA
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Simple answer is no. Just because people created a "league" doesn't mean a hobby will become a professional sport. Professional lacrosse players all have second and third jobs, and that is the fastest growing sport in the US at the moment. Paintball is not a sport, it is a hobby that we all enjoy, some take it more seriously than others is all. I could not name 1 famous "paintballer" besides Bob Long, and i've been playing recreationaly (spelling?) for 14 years. I HOPE I am wrong, and if anything please use my negative comments as fuel for your fire. I want you to prove me wrong, I just personally think it will never be more than a hobby.
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