Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-24-2012, 02:10 PM #64
scienceguy
 
 
scienceguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
No, that doesn't tell me how ****ty the law is. I'm not even sure he is using stand your ground vs self defense for his defense strategy. I don't know how this could show how ****ty that law is, if it is ****ty at all and isn't being sensationalized. Unless... you assume guilt until proven innocent.
I'll summarize how the law is used. It has happened before, but it was not as obvious as this case ie. bar fights where people have left to get their guns then come back to finish things in the parking lot where noone is looking.

Person 1 starts a fight, person 2 defends self, person 1 shoots person 2 claiming self defense. Person1 has scars because they suck at fighting. Person 2 isn't around testify. Person 1 goes free due to lack of evidence.

Absolutely strange side effect: Person 1 becomes hero of neocon talk radio????

You guys are right... That's what American justice should look like.
scienceguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 04-24-2012, 02:43 PM #65
AlphaNeo36
lapping your tears
 
AlphaNeo36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 765-IN
 has been a member for 10 years
People not being convicted for a lack of evidence? Yeah, that's what American justice should look like.
__________________
Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime.
Overbear: I prefer that I be given a license to shoot anyone who would pick socialism or communism over the basic freedoms inherent to consumerism.
MatrixBaller04 AKA EricS6661: I can guarantee something will happen between now and February 9th.
yesme: i'm not saying you should invest in gold first off, you would be much better off to invest in food,stuff you use and will keep for a couple of years, like razors
Blake360: in highschool, my teacher's father worked for the CIA and she brought my class documents proving the Roswell crash was of extraterrestrial origin.
AlphaNeo36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2012, 02:48 PM #66
Tafari Makonnen
His Imperial Majesty
 
Tafari Makonnen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Addis Ababa
Quote:
Originally Posted by scienceguy View Post
I'll summarize how the law is used. It has happened before, but it was not as obvious as this case ie. bar fights where people have left to get their guns then come back to finish things in the parking lot where noone is looking.

Person 1 starts a fight, person 2 defends self, person 1 shoots person 2 claiming self defense. Person1 has scars because they suck at fighting. Person 2 isn't around testify. Person 1 goes free due to lack of evidence.

Absolutely strange side effect: Person 1 becomes hero of neocon talk radio????

You guys are right... That's what American justice should look like.
'cept that doesn't happen.
__________________
Magen VeLo Yera'e

Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph.
Tafari Makonnen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2012, 02:58 PM #67
AlphaNeo36
lapping your tears
 
AlphaNeo36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 765-IN
 has been a member for 10 years
I have heard of and seen cases where a bar fight will escalate outside and somebody grabs a gun to finish the fight but those are clear cases of attempted murder and the suspects are usually wanted, caught, and tried. I think scienceguy is either trolling or derp.
__________________
Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime.
Overbear: I prefer that I be given a license to shoot anyone who would pick socialism or communism over the basic freedoms inherent to consumerism.
MatrixBaller04 AKA EricS6661: I can guarantee something will happen between now and February 9th.
yesme: i'm not saying you should invest in gold first off, you would be much better off to invest in food,stuff you use and will keep for a couple of years, like razors
Blake360: in highschool, my teacher's father worked for the CIA and she brought my class documents proving the Roswell crash was of extraterrestrial origin.
AlphaNeo36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2012, 03:16 PM #68
EPAPressure
Jobs are for immigrants
 
EPAPressure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
Meh, let him go. He had bruises, and let's face it, Treyvon didn't have a perfect track record either. Looking at the evidence against zimmerman, it's not a very strong case imho. The blacks will riot and burn down their own neighborhoods as is SOP for every time someone of another race hurts a black person, let it be.
__________________
"Chic-Fi-La has an awful chicken sandwich"

-Said nobody, ever.


"Originally posted by drgonzo: That doesn't make sense, the people with the most interaction and dependence on government have the most significant stakes and should have the vote if anyone. People who reject government and do not use government services should be denied the vote if anything." ^^FAIL

"Originally posted by Rebeltilldeath3: When I think geocities I think ****ty tiled background and sparkly titles. Think of a minority's myspace page."

Last edited by EPAPressure : 04-24-2012 at 03:20 PM.
EPAPressure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2012, 04:12 PM #69
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by EPAPressure View Post
Meh, let him go. He had bruises, and let's face it, Treyvon didn't have a perfect track record either. Looking at the evidence against zimmerman, it's not a very strong case imho. The blacks will riot and burn down their own neighborhoods as is SOP for every time someone of another race hurts a black person, let it be.
Two blacks have already killed, or maimed (can't remember) a white person over this treyvon thing. I'd post the article but I'm on my phone and I doubt anyone here cares.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2012, 04:20 PM #70
tsbalr120
Goooonsberry
 
tsbalr120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cowbutt, AR
tsbalr120 is an NCPA player
tsbalr120 is Legendary
Quote:
Originally Posted by scienceguy View Post
I'll summarize how the law is used. It has happened before, but it was not as obvious as this case ie. bar fights where people have left to get their guns then come back to finish things in the parking lot where noone is looking.

Person 1 starts a fight, person 2 defends self, person 1 shoots person 2 claiming self defense. Person1 has scars because they suck at fighting. Person 2 isn't around testify. Person 1 goes free due to lack of evidence.

Absolutely strange side effect: Person 1 becomes hero of neocon talk radio????

You guys are right... That's what American justice should look like.
__________________
|NCPA: Razorbacks|
rip120
tsbalr120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2012, 05:10 PM #71
marcozombie
 
 
marcozombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tejas!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear View Post
and my question is...


WHO THE F' CARES?

So some kid is dead, big deal. There are 6.5+ BILLION people on this planet. One or two more dead is not going to send our species into extinction.
Wow, okay. I thought you were one of the freedom loving conservo-tarians that supports personal liberties of law abiding citizens.. Again, the kid (an AMERICAN citizen of the these United States that your 'patriotic' freedom loving ilk get all teary eyed over) was making his way back from a convinence store to catch the 2nd half of a basket ball game. Nothing illegal about that. Some guy fingers him as a burglury suspect. He ends up dead, with a half-assed investigation by the police to boot. You know what this mess looks like to me; Mexico. See here in America, I can (or could) at least rest assured knowing that if I end up dead for some un-natural reason, someone would put in the effort to investigate my demise. Apperantly not in good ole Flawda, where if I am precieved as a threat, I can be taken down with a bullet. What? No witness? Why thats okay, the dead guy MUST have started it right? Or why would he end up dead right? Bag'm, tag'm, end of story.
That does not bother you in the U.S of A? I guess not.
__________________
I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.]-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, 1799http://abaddoncomic.com/
marcozombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2012, 05:16 PM #72
marcozombie
 
 
marcozombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tejas!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear View Post
So, what was so special? You tell me kid, tell me what makes this guy any different from any other person on the planet?

Come on man, you seem to have all the answers, so lets hear it. Why is this so called "murder"(its not) any different from the thousands a day that happen all over the world and why should any of us care any more than we do about the others that happen?

Or, are you suggesting "THIS" one is more important, more valid, and more "tragic" than others. That this one kid was...what? the second comming of christ or something?
You know, something tells me that if this were a highly publisized case of some individual (just one) getting their gun taken away by any government agiency, you'd be all over this **** and 'up in arms' over it. "But why" I would ask, "It would be just one person out of thousands of gun owners that got their gun taken away by the gubment?" Why make a big deal?
__________________
I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.]-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, 1799http://abaddoncomic.com/
marcozombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2012, 05:27 PM #73
Overbear
#2 Anti Stim Club Member!
 
Overbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Leandro, CA
Overbear is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcozombie View Post
Wow, okay. I thought you were one of the freedom loving conservo-tarians that supports personal liberties of law abiding citizens.. Again, the kid (an AMERICAN citizen of the these United States that your 'patriotic' freedom loving ilk get all teary eyed over) was making his way back from a convinence store to catch the 2nd half of a basket ball game. Nothing illegal about that. Some guy fingers him as a burglury suspect. He ends up dead, with a half-assed investigation by the police to boot. You know what this mess looks like to me; Mexico. See here in America, I can (or could) at least rest assured knowing that if I end up dead for some un-natural reason, someone would put in the effort to investigate my demise. Apperantly not in good ole Flawda, where if I am precieved as a threat, I can be taken down with a bullet. What? No witness? Why thats okay, the dead guy MUST have started it right? Or why would he end up dead right? Bag'm, tag'm, end of story.
That does not bother you in the U.S of A? I guess not.

Again you never answered the question, what makes THIS one any different than the thousands and thousands that happen all over the world now every day?

Its pretty much just some dumb hood that got killed, no big, no loss to humanity, this guy wasn't ever going to grow up to be anything that affected the human race in a positive way.
__________________
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Thomas Jefferson

A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

Armed gays don't get bashed - www.pinkpistols.org

ssgaR: 'faith is the path of least resistance'."

Rapier7: Don't be a douche
Overbear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2012, 05:29 PM #74
Overbear
#2 Anti Stim Club Member!
 
Overbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Leandro, CA
Overbear is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcozombie View Post
You know, something tells me that if this were a highly publisized case of some individual (just one) getting their gun taken away by any government agiency, you'd be all over this **** and 'up in arms' over it. "But why" I would ask, "It would be just one person out of thousands of gun owners that got their gun taken away by the gubment?" Why make a big deal?
And yet you were unable to answer my question.
__________________
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Thomas Jefferson

A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

Armed gays don't get bashed - www.pinkpistols.org

ssgaR: 'faith is the path of least resistance'."

Rapier7: Don't be a douche
Overbear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2012, 05:31 PM #75
marcozombie
 
 
marcozombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tejas!
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
No, that doesn't tell me how ****ty the law is. I'm not even sure he is using stand your ground vs self defense for his defense strategy. I don't know how this could show how ****ty that law is, if it is ****ty at all and isn't being sensationalized. Unless... you assume guilt until proven innocent.


I'm assuming he did something wrong, even if it was accidental. He did appologize for something.

"I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am and I did not know if he was armed or not."

http://lybio.net/tag/george-zimmerma...family-quotes/

Tell you what, let the chips fall where they may, but I'll bet you a coke stand your ground will be used in his defense somehow.

I also say that he walks. Takers?
__________________
I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.]-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, 1799http://abaddoncomic.com/
marcozombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2012, 05:38 PM #76
marcozombie
 
 
marcozombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tejas!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear View Post
Again you never answered the question, what makes THIS one any different than the thousands and thousands that happen all over the world now every day?

Its pretty much just some dumb hood that got killed, no big, no loss to humanity, this guy wasn't ever going to grow up to be anything that affected the human race in a positive way.
Well, I thought by virtue of this case happening in AMERICA, where you and I live, would make it at least a little bit different than in other parts of the world. Thats what I've been told anyway. People don't get gunned down for no reason in America. Again, thats what I've been told.

As far as you knowing who grows up to be what in this country: Show me your divination certifications and I'll take your word for that one.
__________________
I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.]-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, 1799http://abaddoncomic.com/
marcozombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2012, 05:53 PM #77
tsbalr120
Goooonsberry
 
tsbalr120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cowbutt, AR
tsbalr120 is an NCPA player
tsbalr120 is Legendary
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcozombie View Post
[/b]

I'm assuming he did something wrong, even if it was accidental. He did appologize for something.

"I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am and I did not know if he was armed or not."

http://lybio.net/tag/george-zimmerma...family-quotes/

Tell you what, let the chips fall where they may, but I'll bet you a coke stand your ground will be used in his defense somehow.

I also say that he walks. Takers?
Of course his defense will use the stand your ground law, he defended himself outside his home and thought his life was in danger while his head was getting slammed into the sidewalk. That's kinda what the law is...

and he should walk, Florida prosecutors are retarded and always go for a charge that's too harsh that will actually help the defense. aka the casey anthony case, they tried going for the grand slam of 1st degree murder and they lost, the same will happen with this case.
__________________
|NCPA: Razorbacks|
rip120
tsbalr120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2012, 06:14 PM #78
suzukikid2112
 
 
suzukikid2112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
suzukikid2112 plays in the PSP
suzukikid2112 donated to help Peyton Trent
suzukikid2112 is an NCPA player
Though I haven't read all 4 pages of this thread, I will put in my .02. I've done extensive research on this case, and have formed my own opinion, however I'll share with you some basic facts.

First and foremost, the media ****ed this case from day 1. They portrayed Trayvon as an innocent child, as seen in the common picture of him. This picture was 5 years old(or more, cannot confirm). Trayvon had been suspended from school multiple times, confirmed for marijuana, and rumored for possession of burglary tools. He was also known as a drug dealer, social media helped confirm this.

The picture shown of Zimmerman is a 2005 booking photo, showing a heavyset guy with piercings and facial hair. Though this may have been him, it's old.

Without the caption, could you accurately identify the 2 men in this picture?
http://americasright.com/wp-content/...media-bias.jpg

Probably not. I did a blind study in a class of mine. We handed kids a piece of paper, and showed the media shown Trayvon and Zimmerman photos, asking for names. A week later in separate classes, I had every teacher that had a kid I used to the same thing, except with the pictures from above(cropped, of course).

The results? 28/32 accurately identified the first one. Of the same 32 kids, ONLY 2 accurately identified the second one.

I can go on, but the media screwed this beyond belief, forming a race war and painting Zimmerman as a target. He won't get a fair trial, so he shouldn't get one at all, as I believe he is guilty of nothing, except for being paranoid, and if anything, the victim of 21st century mass media, ruining his life.
suzukikid2112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2012, 06:36 PM #79
Volucris
asmuchtextastheywillallow
 
Volucris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nashville
The picture on the right is not trayvon but just someone equally unflattering.
Volucris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 06:15 AM #80
scienceguy
 
 
scienceguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Two blacks have already killed, or maimed (can't remember) a white person over this treyvon thing. I'd post the article but I'm on my phone and I doubt anyone here cares.
I care and I think it sucks.

Let's see how well the stand your ground defense works for them. I wonder if those black people will be seen as the innocent victims protecting their neighborhood from a stray white person. They just wanted to question him and, for some reason, he went crazy so they had to kill him in self defense. There was no other option. They felt their lives were in danger.

I think that's a crappy system, but the people here that want to live in the wild west think that defense is perfectly fine.

That jerks do stupid things is bad. The law protecting jerks when they do stupid things is worse.
scienceguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 06:50 AM #81
barrel roll
secedere
 
barrel roll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL/GA border
barrel roll is one of the top 500 posters on PbNation
barrel roll is Legendary
Quote:
Originally Posted by scienceguy View Post
...
That jerks do stupid things is bad. The law protecting jerks when they do stupid things is worse.
If you had just said this ^^^ everyone would agree with you whole heartedly.




Here is the deal - the Police can't defend you. They mop up the mess, and try to keep order. They are reactionary in nature, and I am perfectly fine with that. Deterrence through presence and threat of punishment (when it works) is a beautiful thing. That being said, no one wants to be a victim BUT for some reason more liberal minded areas don't want you to be able to defend yourself. I don't understand why. Preservation of life is the most basic instinct.
__________________
--- UNDRPRVLGD Goggle Straps n stuff ---
If this be treason, make the most of it.-Patrick Henry
I'm a damn veteran, I've got more rights and privileges than you do.
MQ2 rebuild kits, MP4 ram rebuilds, general 'cocker teching
Will soon be making super slick mid/half block bolts
barrel roll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 08:34 AM #82
EPAPressure
Jobs are for immigrants
 
EPAPressure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
If you had just said this ^^^ everyone would agree with you whole heartedly.




Here is the deal - the Police can't defend you. They mop up the mess, and try to keep order. They are reactionary in nature, and I am perfectly fine with that. Deterrence through presence and threat of punishment (when it works) is a beautiful thing. That being said, no one wants to be a victim BUT for some reason more liberal minded areas don't want you to be able to defend yourself. I don't understand why. Preservation of life is the most basic instinct.
Self defense is the ultimate form of individualism, and individualism is a huge no no in the liberal mindset.
__________________
"Chic-Fi-La has an awful chicken sandwich"

-Said nobody, ever.


"Originally posted by drgonzo: That doesn't make sense, the people with the most interaction and dependence on government have the most significant stakes and should have the vote if anyone. People who reject government and do not use government services should be denied the vote if anything." ^^FAIL

"Originally posted by Rebeltilldeath3: When I think geocities I think ****ty tiled background and sparkly titles. Think of a minority's myspace page."
EPAPressure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 08:48 AM #83
Tafari Makonnen
His Imperial Majesty
 
Tafari Makonnen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Addis Ababa
Quote:
Originally Posted by scienceguy View Post
I care and I think it sucks.

Let's see how well the stand your ground defense works for them. I wonder if those black people will be seen as the innocent victims protecting their neighborhood from a stray white person. They just wanted to question him and, for some reason, he went crazy so they had to kill him in self defense. There was no other option. They felt their lives were in danger.

I think that's a crappy system, but the people here that want to live in the wild west think that defense is perfectly fine.

That jerks do stupid things is bad. The law protecting jerks when they do stupid things is worse.
You keep saying this, but there is nothing wrong with the way the law is written, and you are making stuff up. The law simply removes the criminality of defending yourself with deadly force when not in your home or vehicle. The shooting still must be ruled as self defense by police. If they have evidence to suggest that Zimmerman provoked the confrontation, the law will not protect him. I really do not see why you feel it is inappropriate.
__________________
Magen VeLo Yera'e

Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph.
Tafari Makonnen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 09:43 AM #84
corporationpaintball
too legit to quit
 
corporationpaintball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Burlington, VT
Annual Supporting Member
corporationpaintball is a Moderator
corporationpaintball is BST Legit
corporationpaintball donated to help Peyton Trent
corporationpaintball supports our troops
corporationpaintball is one of the top 250 posters on PbNation
corporationpaintball is Boss
I'm a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment, I'm from Vermont- guns are what we do up here. In this case, however, the law in Florida is just plain stupid. It's called equal force, you can't kill someone who doesn't have the capacity to do the same to you.

For example, you can't shoot someone in the face after they punch you, that's just crazy. If they have a weapon and are threatening you or others then yes, by all means, protect yourself. But this preemptive killing is state-sanctioned murder. Zimmerman would be going to jail in most other states and rightfully so. Even if he was harmed in the scuffle, he went looking for the fight and used a firearm on a child who was unarmed.

And don't make this about skin color, Zimmerman may or may not have, however, that is a fact that only he knows for sure so beyond that would just be speculation. Keep to the facts of the case.
__________________

Old Feedback (+20/-0) | New Feedback (+37/-0)
Annual Supporting Member Council Elite
corporationpaintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump