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Old 05-18-2012, 12:43 PM #211
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Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36 View Post
Would have been avoidable too if Martin didn't clock Zimmerman in the face.
"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog (sic) in an effort to dispel each party's concern" the request said. "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity."
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:44 PM #212
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@marco, Zimmerman's poor manners don't excuse Martin for just outright attacking him.

Your argument is no different than when people accuse rape victims of being responsible for their own rape because they were wearing a ****ty outfit.
"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog (sic) in an effort to dispel each party's concern" the request said. "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity."
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:46 PM #213
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Originally Posted by marcozombie View Post
"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog (sic) in an effort to dispel each party's concern" the request said. "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity."
That's like saying a woman wouldn't have gotten raped if she didn't go out to the bar/club that night.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:48 PM #214
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That's what's going to end up getting Zimmerman some jail time.

I'm not sure why he would confront someone while armed. We were taught that the impetus is on the armed individual to avoid confrontation at all cost to avoid this situation because you'll end up using the firearm to advance your position which isn't legal in Florida. Stand your ground doesn't mean provoke and shoot to "defend" yourself.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:49 PM #215
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That's like saying a woman wouldn't have gotten raped if she didn't go out to the bar/club that night.
Not exactly.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:50 PM #216
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That's like saying a woman wouldn't have gotten raped if she didn't go out to the bar/club that night.
"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog (sic) in an effort to dispel each party's concern" the request said. "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity."
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:51 PM #217
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There's no evidence that Zimmerman confronted anyone.

Walking down the sidewalk and talking on the phone in the proximity of another human being =/= confrontation.

EDIT: We can all read marco, repeating something over and over doesn't make it true. Furthermore, I believe that quote is in regards to what Martin was doing BEFORE the interaction with Zimmerman. As in: whoever wrote that article doesn't believe Zimmerman had any reason to contact the police in the first place.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:53 PM #218
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There's no evidence that Zimmerman confronted anyone.

Walking down the sidewalk and talking on the phone in the proximity of another human being =/= confrontation.
He was in the car, got out of the car and followed Martin. He should have never got out of the car with that gun on him, especially when the police were on their way.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:55 PM #219
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There's no evidence that Zimmerman confronted anyone.

Walking down the sidewalk and talking on the phone in the proximity of another human being =/= confrontation.

EDIT: We can all read marco, repeating something over and over doesn't make it true.
Reading a fact and and choosing to ignor it is different than comprehending a fact and accepting it even though you may not agree with it.

"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog (sic) in an effort to dispel each party's concern" the request said. "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity."
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:00 PM #220
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Originally Posted by marcozombie View Post
Reading a fact and and choosing to ignor it is different than comprehending a fact and accepting it even though you may not agree with it.

"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog (sic) in an effort to dispel each party's concern" the request said. "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity."
You're being a hypocrite and I don't think you truly understand the context of that quote.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:01 PM #221
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He was in the car, got out of the car and followed Martin. He should have never got out of the car with that gun on him, especially when the police were on their way.
Which doesn't mean he confronted Martin. The theory that Martin approached Zimmerman is corroborated by other parties, meanwhile, the theory that Zimmerman confronted Martin is based on heresy. Why choose the latter?
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:01 PM #222
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I knew it wouldn't take long for people spin this around with a bunch of what ifs. Nothing will change the fact that martin chose to beat the **** outta this dude.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:02 PM #223
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You're being a hypocrite and I don't think you truly understand the context of that quote.
That's a bit of an ironic statement. That quote is pretty obvious and makes complete sense. You don't go looking for a fight when you have a loaded weapon on you.


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Which doesn't mean he confronted Martin. The theory that Martin approached Zimmerman is corroborated by other parties, meanwhile, the theory that Zimmerman confronted Martin is based on heresy. Why choose the latter?
Doesn't matter, you don't go looking for a fight with a loaded gun.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:05 PM #224
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Originally Posted by F1VENOM View Post
That's what's going to end up getting Zimmerman some jail time.

I'm not sure why he would confront someone while armed. We were taught that the impetus is on the armed individual to avoid confrontation at all cost to avoid this situation because you'll end up using the firearm to advance your position which isn't legal in Florida. Stand your ground doesn't mean provoke and shoot to "defend" yourself.
How do you know he started the confrontation? He followed martin at a distance to make sure he didn't rob his neighbors houses, then trayvon ran and zimmerman got the street name trayvon ran down and was walking back to meet the officer, after that is where it gets fuzzy.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:06 PM #225
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Doesn't matter. OK, case closed.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:07 PM #226
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How do you know he started the confrontation? He followed martin at a distance to make sure he didn't rob his neighbors houses, then trayvon ran and zimmerman got the street name trayvon ran down and was walking back to meet the officer, after that is where it gets fuzzy.
He called the police, got out of the car with the gun and pursued Martin against the advisement of the 911 operator. That is proven and that's enough to do him in. He should have never got out of the car and certainly shouldn't have got out with the gun.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:13 PM #227
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He called the police, got out of the car with the gun and pursued Martin against the advisement of the 911 operator. That is proven and that's enough to do him in. He should have never got out of the car and certainly shouldn't have got out with the gun.
No, that is NOT proven. How many times do i need to point out that when the 911 operator SUGGESTED that he doesnt need to follow Trayvon, he clearly stated "OK". nothing about that suggests that he continued to follow, and there is no other evidence stating that he continued to follow. In fact he and the operator set up a meeting place for him and the police.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:14 PM #228
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No, that is NOT proven. How many times do i need to point out that when the 911 operator (They are NOT officers by the way) SUGGESTED that he doesnt need to follow Trayvon, he clearly stated "OK". nothing about that suggests that he continued to follow, and there is no other evidence stating that he continued to follow. In fact he and the operator set up a meeting place for him and the police.
How is it not proven that he exited the vehicle while armed with a firearm and the intention of following Martin? You're right, he got out of the car and didn't follow Martin, that's why he ended up underneath Martin.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:20 PM #229
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It doesn't matter. It's not illegal to go talk to someone in a neighborhood and the word of a 911 operator is not law. 911 operators always advise you to not do anything to cover their own *****.

Regardless, the evidence currently shows that Zimmerman was being assaulted against the ground and was suffering injuries to his face. He had every right at that moment to use lethal force and he did that exactly.

There's just no way they'll land a 2nd degree murder charge at this rate.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:21 PM #230
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How is it not proven that he exited the vehicle while armed with a firearm and the intention of following Martin? You're right, he got out of the car and didn't follow Martin, that's why he ended up underneath Martin.
He was talking about when you said "he continued to follow martin even after the operator told him not to"
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:22 PM #231
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It doesn't matter. It's not illegal to go talk to someone in a neighborhood and the word of a 911 operator is not law. 911 operators always advise you to not do anything to cover their own *****.

Regardless, the evidence currently shows that Zimmerman was being assaulted against the ground and was suffering injuries to his face. He had every right at that moment to use lethal force and he did that exactly.

There's just no way they'll land a 2nd degree murder charge at this rate.
No, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up with manslaughter. It's also not illegal to defend yourself against a perceived threat, it's not like Zimmerman was a victim in this.

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He was talking about when you said "he continued to follow martin even after the operator told him not to"
He told the 911 operator he was following Martin and hung up.
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