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Old 04-15-2012, 11:09 PM #1
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So the current game has now legalized cheating?

After coming back to the game of paintball after an extended hiatus, everything is different and I can go on and on about that but the biggest difference are the things that are legal now would have had you thrown out years ago.

When I stopped playing it was illegal to be caught playing with a ramping gun. Now they come stock and people openly say it. What used to be seasoned veterans with the quickest fingers, anyone can have insane firepower. Did this happen because people just kept cheating and the leagues/fields/gun makers just accepted it?

The amount of padding people play with is ridiculous. CRAZY bounces! How did this become ok? You can wear a padded under armor type vest with a jersey that has pads all over and then wear more padding under it on your forearms. Thats ridiculous! You would have been told to take at least one layer off.

The worst part is that if you don't participate in the above, your almost putting yourself at a disadvantage.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:21 AM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteEmUpGood View Post
After coming back to the game of paintball after an extended hiatus, everything is different and I can go on and on about that but the biggest difference are the things that are legal now would have had you thrown out years ago.

When I stopped playing it was illegal to be caught playing with a ramping gun. Now they come stock and people openly say it. What used to be seasoned veterans with the quickest fingers, anyone can have insane firepower. Did this happen because people just kept cheating and the leagues/fields/gun makers just accepted it?
Yes.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:43 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteEmUpGood
After coming back to the game of paintball after an extended hiatus, everything is different and I can go on and on about that but the biggest difference are the things that are legal now would have had you thrown out years ago.

When I stopped playing it was illegal to be caught playing with a ramping gun. Now they come stock and people openly say it. What used to be seasoned veterans with the quickest fingers, anyone can have insane firepower. Did this happen because people just kept cheating and the leagues/fields/gun makers just accepted it?

The amount of padding people play with is ridiculous. CRAZY bounces! How did this become ok? You can wear a padded under armor type vest with a jersey that has pads all over and then wear more padding under it on your forearms. Thats ridiculous! You would have been told to take at least one layer off.

The worst part is that if you don't participate in the above, your almost putting yourself at a disadvantage.
Going to have to agree with you here I'm only 18 so I should technically be considered old school, but the guys I grew up playing with were old school so I adopted those ideals. I don't like PSP, and I think semi-auto should be the way to go always. I especially don't like the sideline coaching it involves. Its only snake side now, but still should be gone. I'd like 7 man to get bigger than 5 man is now. It would be cool to see 10 man get back in and maybe help grow the sport, but I doubt that will ever happen. And as far as the padding goes, I only wear elbows just so I don't tear up my arms. Anymore padding than that just feels unnecessary.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:58 AM #4
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I don't really see the issue, semi is faster than ramping capped at 12.5bps. Reaching well over that on semi is pretty easy with guns now a days, and while people may layer up in rec ball. On the tourney level there is usually a layer rule. Which I've found normally to be two.
Which permits me wearing my knee and elbow pads which are necessary for the sliding I do, and my jersey and pants, which are necessary for me not to be naked.

And cheating is still not tolerated. The sport has evolved some, but I don't find it any more unfair or fair than it ever used to be.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:49 AM #5
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You can't legalize cheating.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:01 AM #6
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Quote:
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I don't really see the issue, semi is faster than ramping capped at 12.5bps. Reaching well over that on semi is pretty easy with guns now a days, and while people may layer up in rec ball. On the tourney level there is usually a layer rule. Which I've found normally to be two.
Which permits me wearing my knee and elbow pads which are necessary for the sliding I do, and my jersey and pants, which are necessary for me not to be naked.

And cheating is still not tolerated. The sport has evolved some, but I don't find it any more unfair or fair than it ever used to be.
If what you say is true, there would be no enhanced firing modes coming stock on paintball guns and there would have never been an issue of people ramping. When the All Americans won with their turbo shockers, turbo was banned, it is legal now. So yea, cheating became accepted. While some people with skill can achieve sick ROF in semi, most people can't so ramping is substituted for real skill.

The amount of pads you wear and say your allowed to encourages bounces. Theres a reason you wear gel pads and not hard armored ones that can protect you even more. Jerseys have evolved from having no padding to being a pillow. Where does it end? Should we just wrap ourselves in blankets. Maybe I should wrap my gun to protect it from falling and scratches.

The padding is unfair because if im not wearing ridiculous amounts of pads, I am at a disadvantage. I am more prone to having balls break on me. So to level the field I now have to go and wear all of these pads as well.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:31 AM #7
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Walking a trigger is hardly a skill, as just about every tournament player can do it as well as the next. Ramping isnt allowing cheating, it stops it by capping everyone at the same rate of fire. A bouncing trigger was a much easier and common way to cheat than ramping anyways. You're misunderstanding rampings purpose. It is there to cap rof not to enhance it.

As far ad padding is concerned, maybe you should go into the tournament series section. There are lots of threads with players arguing because many series allow less padding than years pa st.

Paintball is far more proffessional and cheating in general is far less prevelant now than it was in the "golden age" of paintball that some seem to remember a bit too fondly

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Old 04-16-2012, 12:33 PM #8
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I agree with this completely.^^^
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:29 PM #9
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QQ stop crying about recball, it's meant to have fun and there are limited rules so if you want you could come out in a pillow suit if you wanted. In tournaments (things that matter) then they have rules on padding, padding is still mostly to protect yourself when you're diving and such, bounces is just something extra. If you don't like all this "cheating" in recball then play something tournaments.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:49 PM #10
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Quote:
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padding is still mostly to protect yourself when you're diving and such, bounces is just something extra. If you don't like all this "cheating" in recball then play something tournaments.
Right, and you need padding on your ribs for your rib slides? And you need pads on top of your hands for when you seal dive with your hands behind you. Are the pads on top of my shoulder to protect me when i tackle the ground?

In this game you eliminate people by marking them, to add all of this padding to make it more difficult is a counter to one of the basic mechanics of the game.

I do play tournaments and thats why i think this is ridiculous. If anything you should only be allowed to wear knee and elbow pads.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:55 PM #11
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You can't legalize cheating.
Quite the paradox. If its legal, its not cheating.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:10 PM #12
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:48 PM #13
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Paintball has evolved into a format that works best for everyone, if you watch the current format and compare it with years gone by you'll find that it works much better.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:57 PM #14
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I don't really see the issue, semi is faster than ramping capped at 12.5bps. Reaching well over that on semi is pretty easy with guns now a days, .

Indeed, it is easy to outshoot 12.5bps with a semi. Virtually anyone who's owned an electro before ramping became legal could do that. However, if we're talking about recball, I still see ramping as a problem.

I may be able to hit 16bps without the aid of bounce, but I guarantee I have fewer "accidents" with my gun locked on uncapped semi than if it were on PSP mode. I made a concious decision to never use ramping again back in the PSP 15bps days -- there were far too many people that I lit up very badly because of it -- even in tournaments.

With pure semi I can control every ball that leaves my gun. If I want a rope, I've got it. Lane closed. If I want to gun battle, I've got an appropriate rof for that too. Sometimes I just want to shoot 1-3 bps so I don't get the attention of EVERYBODY on the other team. With ramping that's a lot harder to do. And I'm a highly seasoned player.

Do you think a 1st or 2nd year hormonal teenage player who's handed a ramping gun can be as responsible with it?

Statistically, the answer is no. I know I couldn't have been trusted with it when I was that age...
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:58 PM #15
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:33 PM #16
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@loneassasin, I agree, but many fields don't allow ramping during recball.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:58 PM #17
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One thing to keep in mind it isn't actually ramping like it used to be, where you are ramping based on how fast you are pulling the trigger. With PSP burst, which is the technical name, it eliminates the factor of being able to sit in the back and lay down paint at 15-17bps all day like the "good ol' days". It is two semi shots, then the 3rd shot is a 3 shot burst at 12.5bps. If you don't fire for 1 second it reverts back to the beginning.
It makes holding lanes a lot easier, you don't have an advantage if player A can shoot faster than player B. Also, the multiple games allows a more even game. You don't have those fluke games, the team that is better and can keep winning takes the game. It is normally a race-to-2 which means best out of 3, race-to-3 which means best out of 5 games, and race-to-X which means there is a time limit of game time and the team with the most points(one point is one game won) at the end of that time limit wins.
They also have different penalities: instead of the one-for-one where a player and a teammate at random is taken off is replaced with a time penality. A minor penalty is playing on with an unobvious hit is given 2 minutes out of the game if they win the point. If they lose then the time comes off. A major penalty is 2 minutes out whether you win or lose. Which means that you may go into the next game with only 4 players starting out.
It makes a single player actions such as not noticing a hit less detrimental to the entire tournament, however, they still leave their team with one less player. It's like anything, what you may think is "cheating" is just a mental mistake by the player, and it really factors in nicely and results in less fluke games.
A gross major penalty is assessed you out of the game for 10 minutes. It is normally for people shooting over 12.5 or shooting hot(over 300fps).

It is like pass interference in football, the penalties hurt you but they don't cost you the game(though they could). Because lets face it, you're out there, you're tired, it's chaotic, the adrenaline is pumping, you're going to make mistakes. There is fouls in every sport, right now the guys up at PSP saw that and decided on that system to keep the game fair and make the transition into an actual sport's league.

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Old 04-16-2012, 08:03 PM #18
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Quote:
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Right, and you need padding on your ribs for your rib slides? And you need pads on top of your hands for when you seal dive with your hands behind you. Are the pads on top of my shoulder to protect me when i tackle the ground?

In this game you eliminate people by marking them, to add all of this padding to make it more difficult is a counter to one of the basic mechanics of the game.

I do play tournaments and thats why i think this is ridiculous. If anything you should only be allowed to wear knee and elbow pads.
All I'm talking about are the elbow and knee pads, i'm not considering whats on the jersey real padding. it just sounds like you're bored and need something to cry about to keep yourself entertained today
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:10 PM #19
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Paint has become to fragile that even if you had 20 XXXXXXXXXL shirts on the paint is still going to break. Even the "economy" paint breaks, a bounce is very rare with DXS recsport. I also shoot PMI premium and it is nice and brittle as well. Tourney paint breaks when you give it a mean look, stuff like ultra-evil being so brittle if your gun is shooting at too high of pressure and isn't gentle on paint it will shred paintballs.
Paint has gotten so soft people don't even bother with padding, it's mostly safety with padding around the forarms for slides and on the chest for superman slides.


EDIT: basically, as equipment and technology has evolved, the game has evolved to compensate and everything stays even.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:28 PM #20
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Capped ramping makes the game more fair if anything.

However, I believe that ramping is pointless in rec ball and there is truly no need for a skilled player to ramp in rec play.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:34 PM #21
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I've seen guys who are ramping never put an extra ball on anyone and I've seen guys on semi bonus ball the **** out of people. Whether you are ramping or semi you're going to be shooting streams, so it really doesn't matter, what does matter is how much control the player has.
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