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Old 04-05-2011, 11:55 PM #1
alpha badger
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Any transhumanists here?

So I'm studying Biomedical Engineering and am absolutely fascinated with the idea of transhumanism and subsequently becoming "post human."

For those of you who am not sure what i mean im talking about the idea of modifying ourselves so extensively with genetic, robotic, cybernetic and nanotechnologies that we cannot be truley classified as human anymore due to our greatly superior cognitive abilities, physical shape, life span and personalities.

I just finished reading a book call "Radical Evolution" by Joel Garreau and i would really like to hear some other thoughts from the people here.
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:21 AM #2
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The trolling potential is so great.

But no, if that happens, we'll just create inorganic humans with AI that do work for us.
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:37 AM #3
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I'll bite.



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Old 04-06-2011, 01:02 AM #4
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I'll bite.



Resistance is futile.
certainly not one of the futures i think anyone would look forward to.

and robotic workers would definitely have a market, though if they were a true AI that was self aware that would bring up all sorts of rights issues with sentient life.
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:35 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krampus View Post
The trolling potential is so great.

But no, if that happens, we'll just create inorganic humans with AI that do work for us.
Now hold on. If something comes from a book you've read it's worthy of discussion, but if it's something you haven't read, or don't agree with for whatever reason, it's now troll worthy?
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:42 AM #6
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Now hold on. If something comes from a book you've read it's worthy of discussion, but if it's something you haven't read, or don't agree with for whatever reason, it's now troll worthy?
Well duh.
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:44 AM #7
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Now hold on. If something comes from a book you've read it's worthy of discussion, but if it's something you haven't read, or don't agree with for whatever reason, it's now troll worthy?
What kinda forum do you think this is, a civilized one? For shame...
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:47 AM #8
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Now hold on. If something comes from a book you've read it's worthy of discussion, but if it's something you haven't read, or don't agree with for whatever reason, it's now troll worthy?
I'm saying it's trollable because of the title. I never said a thing about it's merit. It's an interesting topic, just something weird and it gives off silly images in your head. It's not like I just posted a troll picture and left. I wrote more than one sentence.


Seriously some of you guys are acting like I've insulted you personally going after each post I make.
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:52 AM #9
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I'm saying it's trollable because of the title. I never said a thing about it's merit. It's an interesting topic, just something weird and it gives off silly images in your head. It's not like I just posted a troll picture and left. I wrote more than one sentence.


Seriously some of you guys are acting like I've insulted you personally going after each post I make.
I actually chuckled a bit after seeing your post as i didnt even think about it. no worries.

So heres a question thats been rolling around in my head for a while. how much of you would you have to modify and/or in what way that for you would cross the line from being just an augmented human to something else entirely?
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:59 AM #10
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Quote:
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I'm saying it's trollable because of the title. I never said a thing about it's merit. It's an interesting topic, just something weird and it gives off silly images in your head. It's not like I just posted a troll picture and left. I wrote more than one sentence.


Seriously some of you guys are acting like I've insulted you personally going after each post I make.

Nah, just a low tolerance of double standards. You do tend to be dismissive of topics that you seem to believe are beneath you (why any topic would be beneath anyone is beyond me).

I see nothing trollable in the title, seems pretty straight to the point. There is an intellectual and cultural movement known as transhumanism, followers of which are known as transhumanists, seems a pretty straight forward question to ask if any are here.

To go back on topic, I wouldn't classify myself as one in the traditional sense. However a few of my own ideas do overlap into the same territory, but in a more long term evolutionary process instead of a technological one.
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:25 AM #11
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and robotic workers would definitely have a market, though if they were a true AI that was self aware that would bring up all sorts of rights issues with sentient life.
http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/0...uld-exist.html

http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/0...he-em-rev.html
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:27 AM #12
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Nah, just a low tolerance of double standards. You do tend to be dismissive of topics that you seem to believe are beneath you (why any topic would be beneath anyone is beyond me).
How am I dismissive of this? Multiple posts so far.

Quote:
I see nothing trollable in the title, seems pretty straight to the point. There is an intellectual and cultural movement known as transhumanism, followers of which are known as transhumanists, seems a pretty straight forward question to ask if any are here.
And a pu pu platter isn't actual poo, doesn't mean that some people don't laugh at the name.

You guys need to lighten up, surprised this is coming from you after what you posted in the other thread.
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:31 AM #13
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:43 AM #14
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My ultimate dream is to see the complete mapping of the human brain transposed in to binary sequences (or whatever other methods of base code we use in the future) so that we are able to plug in to a hive mind a la the Matrix (though less pop culture-like and, subsequently, less Keanu Reeves retardation).

Seeing as everything we perceive is essentially interpretations of code inside our own brain, the singularity idea would be absolutely fascinating. We learn at the speed of light. We share thoughts at the speed of light. We're able to live a million lives in a virtual world so real that you cannot discern it from actual reality. There need not be any more war, no mass consumption of resources, no physical destruction at all. Discoveries and advancement would come at an incredible rate and we, as a species, would likely teach ourselves in to an actual reaching of the stars and galactic travel.

Hell, if we were able to upload our brains as, say, a program inside a machine, we could technically "live" with cognition forever, as long as the machine we're in is powered. Plug in to a machine, travel to another galaxy, learning along the way, then process a new body to upload your brain back in to.

/supernerdsideofme
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Old 04-06-2011, 03:08 AM #15
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Treghc I highly recommend you check out those links I posted, directly related to that topic, and he is always updating his blog and every single advance/conference regarding emulation of the human brain is tracked there.


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Old 04-06-2011, 03:16 AM #16
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Will do.
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Old 04-06-2011, 03:22 AM #17
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It's a topic that has always interested me, mainly because if we get to the point where we can emulate another "planet", so to speak, we might make our creators computer have a blue screen of death. Or we could have a simulation in a simulation (assuming we're highly advanced simulations). Interesting ****.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:38 AM #18
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My ultimate dream is to see the complete mapping of the human brain transposed in to binary sequences (or whatever other methods of base code we use in the future) so that we are able to plug in to a hive mind a la the Matrix (though less pop culture-like and, subsequently, less Keanu Reeves retardation).
How and why would you even try to map an organic machine to a binary logic-or even any mathematical logic? That's so constraining it's not even funny.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:56 AM #19
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I read The Singularity is Near by Ray Kurzweil a few years ago andI find the concept of the singularity fascinating. Singularists like Kurzweil see this "transhumanism" as an inevitability, the unavoidable consequence of our technological advancement that we should think about and prepare for now. Personally I love the idea of transcending death, living forever as my conscience. The movie Ghost in the Shell is awesome and gives some insight into what the world should look like in about 20 years or so if the Singularists are correct.

My issue with the singularity is - how can you reproduce our thought in hardware? Singularists think that we'll reverse engineer the human brain and will have the computing power, nanotechnology and genetic knowledge available to recreate the brain by about the year 2040. This is based on the exponential exponential (i typed that twice on purpose) growth of technology.

The singularists take it on faith that the growth will continue, and that we will have solved all the seemingly impossible problems of how to reproduce human consciousness by then.

I wonder, even if you could transfer the function of the neocortex to silicon (or whatever material), what would consciousness be like without all the chemicals that our neurons are bombarded with? Would I want to live without my supply of self produced mind drugs?
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:54 PM #20
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...I wonder, even if you could transfer the function of the neocortex to silicon (or whatever material), what would consciousness be like without all the chemicals that our neurons are bombarded with? Would I want to live without my supply of self produced mind drugs?
Lots of arguments against the idea of the a Turing machine ever becoming conscious, regardless of how complex it's construction...John Searles "Chinese room" comes to mind as a particularly strong one.

IBM is building the most powerful computer ever assembled (at a cost of $100 million) called "Blue Gene". For Blue Gene to simulate the folding of a single protein inside a cell would probably take months...this is a process that in reality takes a millionth of a second and involves a molecule that is is a billionth of a metre long. For an exhaustive molecular reconstruction of the activity in a single cell, one would need to simulate the interactions of about 10^12 such molecules. This would require the computing power of about 10^27 Blue Genes. Utilizing the resources of our entire solar system, we would still fall far short of enough stuff to build this "single cell simulator".
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:52 PM #21
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IBM is building the most powerful computer ever assembled (at a cost of $100 million) called "Blue Gene". For Blue Gene to simulate the folding of a single protein inside a cell would probably take months...this is a process that in reality takes a millionth of a second and involves a molecule that is is a billionth of a metre long. For an exhaustive molecular reconstruction of the activity in a single cell, one would need to simulate the interactions of about 10^12 such molecules. This would require the computing power of about 10^27 Blue Genes. Utilizing the resources of our entire solar system, we would still fall far short of enough stuff to build this "single cell simulator".
The fact that we lack the technology NOW doesn't mean that we won't have it at some point in the future. At any rate, I don't think that reconstructing a cell down to every last molecule is the point. I think these people are trying to find an analog for a neuron and recreate the human brain.

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This would require the computing power of about 10^27 Blue Genes
Your current laptop computer has the computing power of about how many Commodore 64's? Have you read anything about nanotechnology at all? The ability to use electron spins as 1's and 0's is on the horizon - making computer memory on the atomic scale possible.
Krampus: keep an open mind, but obviously not so open that your brain falls out.
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