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Old 05-24-2012, 11:28 AM #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spork801 View Post
Even the inner poly orings can be swelled by the 55? It seems the bolt is dragging on those more than the buna guide orings.
Definitely follow any advice you're getting from Jason, see above. Let's eliminate the possible culprits 1 by 1 and see what it can be narrowed down to.

If you remove that 017 o-ring and you can snap the bolt out with a flick of the wrist, there's your issue.
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:51 AM #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Brockdorff View Post
Why would anyone come to you for help, when all you can tell them is to change the diaphragm or stick vaseline in their guns?
Generally, I come here to help people, not to argue with Special kids on the internet. However, this time you asked a legitimate question, so I'll give you a legitimate answer....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_vanguard View Post
Just like to thank Reaper for all your Input too, always 100% and correct
I've searched, but been unable to find a post where Jason has said that ^ about you.
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Old 05-24-2012, 03:15 PM #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spork801
Even the inner poly orings can be swelled by the 55? It seems the bolt is dragging on those more than the buna guide orings.
None of the o rings will be swelled by Dow 55,
Polys are polyurethane and bunas are nitrile, neither will react or swell as they are not natural rubber.
We used 55 because it adhered to the surfaces better, that being said I have not tested a demon in America,Canada,Sweden,Russia etc.
If you find a lube that works well for you then simply use it.
Now did you try removing the 2nd 017 inner can ring yet?
Post up so we can help
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Old 05-24-2012, 03:38 PM #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_vanguard View Post
None of the o rings will be swelled by Dow 55,
Polys are polyurethane and bunas are nitrile, neither will react or swell as they are not natural rubber.
We used 55 because it adhered to the surfaces better, that being said I have not tested a demon in America,Canada,Sweden,Russia etc.
If you find a lube that works well for you then simply use it.
Now did you try removing the 2nd 017 inner can ring yet?
Post up so we can help
Haven't gotten a chance to try anything yet, gear is still all thrown in the bag from last weekend's event. I will try it tonight.

Thanks to everyone for the help.
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Old 05-24-2012, 04:42 PM #89
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Alright Gents, After heading advice to re lube my Regulator I took the initiative to totally and completely clean it.

This is what my HPR Internals looked like at 4863 shots. Could this potentially be why My velocity was no higher then 250 FPS. and potentially a cause of my First, Second, Third, Fourth and sometimes Fifth shot drop off?
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:11 PM #90
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Absolutely!

I didn't think the regulator would be an issue considering the gun was brand new. Not sure how the velocity adjuster got to look like this. That's terrible. Replace those o-rings (DUH!) and try again.

I can't even begin to explain how that got to be like that???

Those are (for the most part) static o-rings, they should not be able to wear like that.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:14 PM #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Eskimo
Alright Gents, After heading advice to re lube my Regulator I took the initiative to totally and completely clean it.

This is what my HPR Internals looked like at 4863 shots. Could this potentially be why My velocity was no higher then 250 FPS. and potentially a cause of my First, Second, Third, Fourth and sometimes Fifth shot drop off?
That is absolutely why you have issues, I don't know how on earth the adjuster screw ended up in that condition, lack of lube or o ring failure, I'm not sure.
It doesn't look how it should whatsoever .
Please contact us via e mail so we can get this sorted out asap
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:24 PM #92
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Jason,

I cleaned it all out, and aired it up. No leaks. while I dont have any paint on my persons. I'll have to wait to get out to shoot it again before I figure out if I'm still having FSDO issues and low velocity issues.

I replaced the Two O-rings on them, and Re-lubed with a Thin coating of Marmalade (Seeing as how most of any excess lube would be just blown through the HPR anyways no need to use any more then needed)

If you still want to chat, I'm not sure on what subject entirely as I don't need any replacement parts (at least as of now)
Would you like me to E-mail you Via Vanguard UK, US, or PM you directly?
Also I do have Contact Directly With Mr Connell.

Also, Did you ever See our Barrels? most of us have machine marks along the outside of the barrels, and have very rough machine marks on the last inch of our barrels. I know many of our Team members 0.685 Barrels are un-usable.
Along with very sharp edges inside the Can's of the Drive train, Both Smeagol (Sam C) and Mr. Connell Cut their fingers open running them along the inside of the Can.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:35 PM #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Eskimo
Jason,

I cleaned it all out, and aired it up. No leaks. while I dont have any paint on my persons. I'll have to wait to get out to shoot it again before I figure out if I'm still having FSDO issues and low velocity issues.

I replaced the Two O-rings on them, and Re-lubed with a Thin coating of Marmalade (Seeing as how most of any excess lube would be just blown through the HPR anyways no need to use any more then needed)

If you still want to chat, I'm not sure on what subject entirely as I don't need any replacement parts (at least as of now)
Would you like me to E-mail you Via Vanguard UK, US, or PM you directly?
Also I do have Contact Directly With Mr Connell.

Also, Did you ever See our Barrels? most of us have machine marks along the outside of the barrels, and have very rough machine marks on the last inch of our barrels. I know many of our Team members 0.685 Barrels are un-usable.
Along with very sharp edges inside the Can's of the Drive train, Both Smeagol (Sam C) and Mr. Connell Cut their fingers open running them along the inside of the Can.
Ok,
You seem to have that in order.
Barrels yes , we have located the problem and we are currently getting this issue dealt with, you will have full replacements,
Frank and I will make sure everything is in order.
If you need anything from me then feel free to mail me.. Jason@vanguardpaintball.com
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:40 PM #94
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Thanks Jason.
Im not Concerned To much about my own Stuff. I mean, small marks on the outside of my Gear is Negligible, I will openly hand my Demon over to any player who wants to run a pod through it in game to try it
(So Far its been in a DM12 users hands - He loved it, and a T8 user at LL5, who looked like a kid on Christmas when I told him to empty it for fun at the guys across the Bedlam Field)

But I dont want these issues to go on wards to the players buying these from shops. Because then it makes Yourself, and I look like fools. which I'd rather not deal with.
If you guys even need any input feel free to ask any of us. (Im sure the ACI guys are MUCH more well versed on the vanguard Demon then ourselves. however the offer still stands at any point in time)
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:48 PM #95
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As far as low velocity goes Citrus Eskimo, did you make sure your set screw on bottom of the reg housing is flush, or every so slightly in from flush. and that it is lined up with one of the slots on the bottom of the reg inside. alot of people i know that have velocity issues, this was the problem.

make sure to have the set screw set right, then screw the reg housing on. then turn your velocity screw clockwise until it is tight and starts moving the entire reg inside. look inside the reg housing from the empty set screw hole (using a flashlight helps), make sure the slot is lined up with the empty set screw hole. if you do this, it means the other slot on the other side is lined up perfectly with the screw on the other side. important part ---> do not adjust or unscrew the velocity screw yet. actually air up the marker, then slowly turn the velocity screw counter-clockwise to raise your pressure. the reason to air it up first is because you want the reg to be pushed downward onto the set screw on the bottom, so when you turn your velocity screw, you arent just turning the entire reg inside your housing. now, take your flashlight again and check that the screw is still in the slot on the reg inside. and you are set.

the problem is that if the screw is not in the slot on the reg inside, it is resting on the higher rim of the reg. this will cause you to not be able to raise your pressure high enough to reach the fps you desire.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:51 PM #96
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not sure if you knew this or not. or if you have already checked this.

i just thought i'd throw it out there just to see if it would help you.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:54 PM #97
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^^ The New Regulators have a better solution:

The set screw is now on the Side of the reg, and the reg has a "notch" if you will in the side of it,

The only way to get the regulator in, is to drop it over the notch. Else the reg will sit about 1/2" higher and it will be impossible to screw into the marker's mainbody.

Much better design. more simple. and means there is only 1 set screw on the bottom of the reg now.
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:00 PM #98
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ah, got ya. wasn't sure which version you had. my demon still has the old version.
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:11 PM #99
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My demon was having constant low fps, around 250 and we couldn't get it any higher no matter what we adjusted... Dwell, bore sizes, regulator adjustment screw etc and we relubed and replaced a bunch of parts.

Frank currently has it now though so I am sure he will be able to take care of it fine. Just can't wait to get it back so I can shoot it and play with it, hassle free.
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:12 PM #100
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Oh and it was frank in the first place who was looking at it on he field and still couldn't get it past 250 fps
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:30 PM #101
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yea, i just know i serviced my reg when i first got my demon, and couldnt get it to chrono over 250 fps. i looked at the reg positioning with the set screw and saw it was resting on the lip of the bottom of the reg instead of the slot. put it in the right position, and i chrono'd to 300 fps no problem.

but again, i have the older version of the reg appartently.
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:41 PM #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Eskimo View Post
Alright Gents, After heading advice to re lube my Regulator I took the initiative to totally and completely clean it.

This is what my HPR Internals looked like at 4863 shots. Could this potentially be why My velocity was no higher then 250 FPS. and potentially a cause of my First, Second, Third, Fourth and sometimes Fifth shot drop off?
This is exactly how my reg screw was like when I took it appart. I had the same problems in my demon even after eric looked at it.

He changed some orings and the diapgrmg and gun was doing go in cali, but when I used it here, my problem wasnt solved.

I relubed the screw and no problem anymore.
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Old 05-24-2012, 08:24 PM #103
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Alrighty boys. New question, Marker shoots. works fantastic. Paint runs through it.

However, I have a Very tiny leak from the bottom of my HPR, its coming out of the Velocity Adjuster hole.

Here is what I'v Done
-> Swapped Both Velocity adjuster nut 007 Oring's and re-lubed
-> Swapped 014 O-ring and 017 O-ring on the lower HPR Caseing
-> Swapped 014 on the HPR Piston
-> Swapped 018 on the HPR Cap (the second in the middle of the threading)
-> Swapped 007 on HPR Piston

lube used by recommendation was Dow 33 based (Marmalade) on the HPR O-rings

By trouble shooting its got to be the 017 O-ring OR one of the two 007 O-rings.
bah, i'll change em again lmao. Oh the joys of teching.

I'm out of idea's on what to do. Leak out of bottom of velocity adjuster hole.

Edit: We really need a Demon Tech Thread. I think my Demon might need a On-going topic on its own.

Last edited by Citrus Eskimo : 05-24-2012 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:11 PM #104
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hmmm, not sure. it would think it would be the 007 orings on the adjustment screw. not sure.

and i agree about the demon tech thread. only downside is your questions get group in a thread with others and sometimes get skipped.
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:13 PM #105
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Alright swapped the 017 O-ring again, still leak.

Which means it has to be the Velocity adjustment screw O-rings.
But BOTH are tight inside the screw hole. they need a good shove to get in. The seem like they both seal Really well...

Going to Remove and Re-lube with dow 55 on the Adjustment O-rings

Edit: No change.
Screw it, I'll just Re-fill my tank then try again. Maybe low pressure causes leaks from the HPR

Last edited by Citrus Eskimo : 05-24-2012 at 09:19 PM.
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