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Old 05-22-2012, 07:47 PM #64
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Straight from jasons mouth yestefrom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_vanguard View Post
I agree, our bolt is specifically designed to operate at a set pressure, some of us know where we are just with experience but others may be well off the required pressure the demon needs . When it's is set correct it shoots the buisness!
If you do need a tester then it has to be done to make sure you all get the best experience from it, it don't have a halo and wings it's got s temper and needs to be kept under control , it's a demon and you need to demonise it ,
Hit me up if you need any help whatsoever , I can answer every single issue . Might not be instant but it will be correct
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:13 PM #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameagol26 View Post
Haha I just hope vanguard makes some changes on the demons to make them a bit more reliable. I live in a part of Canada where there are no techs or vanguard reps around me so when I have issues, if I can't fix it myself I am f*cked.
Honestly there are only a couple of resources so 99% of the country doesn't live near a Vanguard tech but you will get quick answers and a lot of help here, and if you're willing to learn there are no secrets with the marker, shootnpoo, Koker, and Reaper will tell you whatever it is that you want to know.

And I don't think I'm speaking out of turn when all of them will more than likely tell you not to cram reballs into them.
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:44 PM #66
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lol. No reballs trust.
that just seems... Silly to me.

also: Where are we able to find diaphragms for the QEV? And the good ones too. I have the Silver bolt in my Demon (which is the most recent one as I was told)
so do I need the smaller Diaphragm or the bigger one? the Vanguard home page has nothing on the sort. I guess a simple call to the people of vanguard would be the solution to that however.

I also Do not want to remove mine to accidentally muck it up and be forever in Canada's wilderness of "Your markers broke"
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:41 AM #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper (ACI) View Post
It should also cause more problems with your QEV being sucked into the exhaust hole because you've increased your operating pressure. I think we have enough issues with QEVs without complicating it by sticking reballs into your gun.

I seriously want to cut myself every time I see you post something.
We are not experiencing increased QEV failure, not in any way, shape or form.

The DO issue is not solely related to the QEV, which you should know - and this fix has worked for a month now, for 3 different teams all shooting the Demon.

So, go ahead and cut yourself.
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:41 AM #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Brockdorff View Post
We are not experiencing increased QEV failure, not YET in any way, shape or form.
give it just a little bit, you will.

You've already proven that you don't understand the design of the gun with your assertion that the QEV is related to the rate of fire (which was then corrected by the designer of the gun).

Cramming reballs into the firing can is a ridiculous, stupid idea. Just because you've somehow managed to jerry-rig the thing to work in that configuration and nothing has broken yet is not proof that it's a good solution.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:40 AM #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHook View Post
give it just a little bit, you will.

You've already proven that you don't understand the design of the gun with your assertion that the QEV is related to the rate of fire (which was then corrected by the designer of the gun).

Cramming reballs into the firing can is a ridiculous, stupid idea. Just because you've somehow managed to jerry-rig the thing to work in that configuration and nothing has broken yet is not proof that it's a good solution.
We have knowledge of 20+ guns that have run this solution for over a month, with only positive results.... irrespective of you thinking it's ridiculous.

The diaphragms fail no more frequently and the guns do about 50 % more cycles per lubing.... those ARE the results, no matter how you may "feel" about it.

As said earlier, it's an imperfect and temporary solution, and we would much prefer the added force needed for better cycle stability, was brought about without raising the internal pressure, but that is in the hands of the factory.

Now, the QEV is a whole other issue - our "fix" har zero impact on that, nor is it meant to deal with that.

I understand why you believe the raised pressure will collapse the diaphragm more often, but that is not what we have found to be the case.

Now, would you mind continuing the dialogue as a grown up, instead of being insulting and childish with every post?
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:41 AM #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Eskimo View Post
lol. No reballs trust.
that just seems... Silly to me.

also: Where are we able to find diaphragms for the QEV? And the good ones too. I have the Silver bolt in my Demon (which is the most recent one as I was told)
so do I need the smaller Diaphragm or the bigger one? the Vanguard home page has nothing on the sort. I guess a simple call to the people of vanguard would be the solution to that however.

I also Do not want to remove mine to accidentally muck it up and be forever in Canada's wilderness of "Your markers broke"
Www.aggressivesports.net
has the correct diaphragms.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:56 AM #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Brockdorff View Post
We have knowledge of 20+ guns that have run this solution for over a month, with only positive results.... irrespective of you thinking it's ridiculous.

The diaphragms fail no more frequently and the guns do about 50 % more cycles per lubing.... those ARE the results, no matter how you may "feel" about it.

As said earlier, it's an imperfect and temporary solution, and we would much prefer the added force needed for better cycle stability, was brought about without raising the internal pressure, but that is in the hands of the factory.

Now, the QEV is a whole other issue - our "fix" har zero impact on that, nor is it meant to deal with that.

I understand why you believe the raised pressure will collapse the diaphragm more often, but that is not what we have found to be the case.

Now, would you mind continuing the dialogue as a grown up, instead of being insulting and childish with every post?
Your thoughts of raising the internal pressure of this marker may work in the UK, but i was involved in every aspect of this marker from conception to Production and including 10+ updates. So your thoughts of giving the Demon a higher internal pressure will work on that side of the pond for reasons onlY a few of us know about at Vanguard. Here where we tripple the amount of marker owners and users, __ this internal pressure increase will not work and will cause failure10x faster than just dealing with the FSDO untill said time when a proper fix has been release from a DIRECT MEMBER OF VANGUARD STAFF.
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:48 AM #72
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Yeah I think I'm going to listen to the guy with vast expertise relating to this marker and who was involved in the cradle-to-grave development of the marker over a guy who has managed to get his jerry-rigged solution to somehow hold together for a month.
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:14 PM #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Brockdorff View Post
instead of being insulting and childish with every post?
You're a retard, there, how's that.

If anybody listens to this retard, do not come asking me for any further help. If you tell me you stuffed reballs into your gun, I will tell you to go find Nick Brockdorff and ask the boy genius to fix your gun for you. After all, he's brilliant and modest.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:52 PM #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper (ACI) View Post
Guys, don't use DOW 55, or Vaseline on anything other than the moving parts on your bolt. Please Please Please don't put DOW 55 or Vaseline in your regulators.

For regulators, use a DOW 33 product, sleek, monkey poo, marmalade, etc.
Okay I know this is a few pages back, However, When We first Opened my Regulator up. for the very first time. There Was that White Grease on my O-rings and inside of it (Assuming it is infact from the same Dow 55 they gave me in that little plastic cup)

So Do you think the Demon would run Much more problem free IF I opened my regulator, and Cleaned it down entirely and Re-lubed it with a Dow 33 Based Product ( I have Hater Marmalade)

I would hate to think I'v been stuck with Funky velocity issues and FSDO issues Because the factory coated my HPR in the Wrong lubricant.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:25 PM #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Eskimo View Post
Okay I know this is a few pages back, However, When We first Opened my Regulator up. for the very first time. There Was that White Grease on my O-rings and inside of it (Assuming it is infact from the same Dow 55 they gave me in that little plastic cup)

So Do you think the Demon would run Much more problem free IF I opened my regulator, and Cleaned it down entirely and Re-lubed it with a Dow 33 Based Product ( I have Hater Marmalade)

I would hate to think I'v been stuck with Funky velocity issues and FSDO issues Because the factory coated my HPR in the Wrong lubricant.
It could have a little to do with the problems you're experiencing if the gun is lubed throughout with DOW55, however, your problems are going to be driven by the drive train, manifold, and QEV. I wouldn't use DOW 55 on anything but the drive train internal o-rings, but whatever. Switching to DOW 33 would be my move, but it wouldn't fix anything you're experiencing.

You should try different o-rings in the can until the bolt moves freely. Start with DOW33 lube in the drive train. Only use the DOW55 or Vaseline if you experience a small, very tiny, leak in the front of the bolt tip. That means the second 017 o-ring in the can is out of tolerance and needs to be swollen to seal properly. In any case, the bolt should slide freely with a flick of the wrist.
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Last edited by Reaper (ACI) : 05-23-2012 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:32 PM #76
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My bolt tip can flick forward (you have to give it a good flick) as there is still resistance enough that if you half *** the flick the bolt will only slide halfway forward or not at all.

So Speaking HPR only here. remove Dow 55 and replace with Dow 33 based silicon lube for the HPR O-rings

And using the Dow 33 on the Interior of the Can in the drive drain. (where the dynamic O-rings are) (done by lubing the Exterior of the Bolt)

Keep using Dow 55 on the Exterior of the Can (the two outside Orings and the Can Tip O-ring)

and use Dow 55 on Interior interior of the Bolt, where that little tiny O-ring is.

Gotcha

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Old 05-23-2012, 03:48 PM #77
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When we were with frank at nppl chicago he used Dow 55 for everything.
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Old 05-23-2012, 04:58 PM #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Eskimo View Post
My bolt tip can flick forward (you have to give it a good flick) as there is still resistance enough that if you half *** the flick the bolt will only slide halfway forward or not at all.

1) So Speaking HPR only here. remove Dow 55 and replace with Dow 33 based silicon lube for the HPR O-rings

2)And using the Dow 33 on the Interior of the Can in the drive drain. (where the dynamic O-rings are) (done by lubing the Exterior of the Bolt)

3)Keep using Dow 55 on the Exterior of the Can (the two outside Orings and the Can Tip O-ring)

4)and use Dow 55 on Interior interior of the Bolt, where that little tiny O-ring is.

Gotcha
1) Yes

2) Sometimes. I start with Dow33 on everything. For the 017 o-rings inside the can, the ones the bolt moves through, I start with DOW33. If it works and there is no tiny leak from the bolt tip, I leave it alone. If there is a leak, I switch to DOW55 to swell the second interior 017 o-ring. Just put it on all of the dynamic o-rings outside the can.

3) No, those are static 021 o-rings. Those I lube with DOW33. No need to swell those.

4) No. The 011 bolt guide front o-ring doesn't need to swell either. Just use DOW33 on that.

The same applies to Vaseline, just swap DOW55 with Vaseline in the spots above if you use Vaseline. Though some guys use Vaseline and DOW55 on everything, it's not necessary. There is only one o-ring that sometimes needs to be swollen, the second 017 inside the can.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sameagol26 View Post
When we were with frank at nppl chicago he used Dow 55 for everything.
I know, but I even told him I wouldn't continue that. No sense in swelling o-rings throughout just to avoid using multiple lubes.
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Old 05-23-2012, 05:21 PM #79
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Just a flick of the wrist huh? I have to practically yank my bolt forward through the can. This is even after polishing and switching lubes. My FSDO problems are mostly gone but the dropoff remains, single shots chrono at 290 no problem but a string will be in the 250-270.
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Old 05-23-2012, 05:31 PM #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper (ACI) View Post
You're a retard, there, how's that.

If anybody listens to this retard, do not come asking me for any further help. If you tell me you stuffed reballs into your gun, I will tell you to go find Nick Brockdorff and ask the boy genius to fix your gun for you. After all, he's brilliant and modest.
Why would anyone come to you for help, when all you can tell them is to change the diaphragm or stick vaseline in their guns?

As to being called a boy genious, it is greatly appreciated, must be my stunning youthfull looks, despite quite possibly being older than you.... although your age is hard to discern under all that army wannabe gear - it really DOES make you look tough you know

And yes, I am brilliant and modest, thanks for reiterating that!
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Old 05-23-2012, 05:34 PM #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spork801
Just a flick of the wrist huh? I have to practically yank my bolt forward through the can. This is even after polishing and switching lubes. My FSDO problems are mostly gone but the dropoff remains, single shots chrono at 290 no problem but a string will be in the 250-270.
Just for a test only try removing the 2nd inner can o ring (017)
This will reduce the effiency but will determine the problem, it could be a number of things but lets get this tried 1st
If you can try that and let us know the results and settings used please.
I'm sure we can get this sorted out for you
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Old 05-23-2012, 05:42 PM #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spork801 View Post
Just a flick of the wrist huh? I have to practically yank my bolt forward through the can. This is even after polishing and switching lubes. My FSDO problems are mostly gone but the dropoff remains, single shots chrono at 290 no problem but a string will be in the 250-270.
sound like you are having the same problem I had.

Had to change the diaphragme, and the 806 oring.

Then problem was nearly gone, but I still saw a small drop when shooting 15bps. I took apart the hpr, relubed and unscrewed the velo adjuster.. it was full of metal dust. When I put everything back togheter, I set my dwell at 15.5, and chrono all the way to 280. Now everything is fine. I use mostly Vaseline or dow 55 depending how I feel...

am having a +- of 4 I would say over the chrono. I played 5 days of practice and 1 event, shooting an average of 3-4 case per day and the Demon is pretty reliable so far. I was a bit concern at first, and wondered if I could trust it not to let me down during a game. And nothing happened so far.
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:27 PM #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spork801 View Post
Just a flick of the wrist huh? I have to practically yank my bolt forward through the can. This is even after polishing and switching lubes. My FSDO problems are mostly gone but the dropoff remains, single shots chrono at 290 no problem but a string will be in the 250-270.
yeah that's not good. The drivetrain should operate much more smoothly than that. There could be a number of things going on from tolerances in the firing can to o-rings being swelled up or the wrong size.

If it were me I'd break that thing down and change out the o-rings, lube it up with sleek and see if things are any better.. but regardless that is too much friction going on, and it's not surprising that you're having shootdown issues.
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:20 PM #84
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Even the inner poly orings can be swelled by the 55? It seems the bolt is dragging on those more than the buna guide orings.
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