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Old 05-22-2012, 09:50 AM #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHook View Post
you were one of the Canadian guys with the orange and white demons (beautiful guns by the way) - how did you like them? We looked at a couple of your markers the day before you got them.
Un REAL. We all love them dearly. The exterior has SOME small blemishes, But honestly. with 16 of them being pumped out of the factory and being a scenario based team. We dont mind having imperfections in the finish (I have some small nicks and what not, the anno on my barrel looks slightly swirled with black. I actually love it looks like coffee.. and i love coffee. ahaha)

I'm actually uploading a whole bunch of photo's with now.

Also while I'm here. Frank Connell has to be THE most respected man in my mind right now. its amazing it really is. He Took so much time out of his day, with his Avalanche players to help teach and find fixes to issues that we had out of the box

(PS who is the guy who puts in the O-ring between the grip frame and the ASA? You forgot to put one in mine lmao. Freaked the **** out of me when I first aired it up.)
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:37 AM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Eskimo View Post
Un REAL. We all love them dearly. The exterior has SOME small blemishes, But honestly. with 16 of them being pumped out of the factory and being a scenario based team. We dont mind having imperfections in the finish (I have some small nicks and what not, the anno on my barrel looks slightly swirled with black. I actually love it looks like coffee.. and i love coffee. ahaha)

I'm actually uploading a whole bunch of photo's with now.

Also while I'm here. Frank Connell has to be THE most respected man in my mind right now. its amazing it really is. He Took so much time out of his day, with his Avalanche players to help teach and find fixes to issues that we had out of the box

(PS who is the guy who puts in the O-ring between the grip frame and the ASA? You forgot to put one in mine lmao. Freaked the **** out of me when I first aired it up.)
I fixed (3) of your guns Saturday night at Franks Hotel. Can you tell me how each of them are doing?

The one with the Purple Exalt grip was reportedly shooting low and not getting above 250fps. I cycled the drive train a few times and put some shots through it, confirmed board settings and it shot fine after that. Is it still shooting okay. Did it perform well Sunday?

There was one with a white/grey grip tape. That one was shooting low and not cycling. I replaced the QEV with a Gen1 QEV let's call it (PE QEV) that way I don't get told there is only one version. That one got a bump in the dwell setting to get rid of a small amount of bolt stick/FSDO. I took the dwell to 18ms. After it gets 10K on the shot counter, I would take it down to 15.5ms. At 20K you can start to back it off if you want. Most of my guns are running at 13.5ms. If you replace the drive train o-rings at any point, I'd bump it back up to 15.5ms or a little higher if you experience any bolt stick.

The third gun didn't have any grip tape or anything on it. It was having the same problems as above. I replaced the QEV in that one with the Gen2 QEV or lets call it (CH QEV). I made the same change to dwell and you should follow the same instructions. I believe this one still had some Chrono issues on Sunday. I'm sorry about that, but obviously I didn't have a chrono or ability to shoot it in the Marriott at 1:00am. Please let me know how it is working after you get it back as I understand Koker took it to finish it for you.

I used the two different QEVs because I was hoping you would be able to help me discover any difference in life cycle of the two.

Anyway, if you ever need any help, let me know.
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:58 PM #45
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The purple Exalt Grip belongs to Tomas Wepa, His worked fine after that. ( I believe. )

The Black and white grip tape was Sam Cowie's (Smeagol 26 on here)
He would be the best info for what happened after. I'm pretty sure we Steam Rolled the Speedball court after that

The no Grip should have been Max Waldes, His worked fine through the day, however he Experienced some major FSDO, and after that no matter how fast he shot the balls would only pop out his barrel around 150 FPS. So I'm not sure if the drive train needed cleaning or what. it wasnt leaking. as far As I know.

My demon, while it suffers no leaks (after putting in the Grip frame O-ring and changing the HRP O-rings, and the Bolt O-rings, and the inner Can O-ring (PLEASE 2 PIECE CAN!) which finally solved the leaking and the puffing issues.
I can only Get mine around 240 FPS (+ / - about 10 - 15 FPS fluctuations )

I didnt care during LL5 after finally getting all the leaks fixed from Mr. Connell and Mike (I think it was Mike... maybe? another tech named Mike??)
I was happy just to see it shooting.

Through the day I started to have FSDO. where if I stopped shooting for more then 10 seconds, my next shot would put a ball into the barrel, then shove about 3 - 4 more into the barrel before I started to shoot confetti, and then finally got a stream going. (still at about 240 FPS though )

So.. all In all.. Defiantly.. A roller Coaster start.

Frank Bumped my Dwell to 16.5 MS, however it didnt seem to help.
Im at 240 FPS (+/- 10 ish) at 4 turn's after Zeroing the regulator. I have no leak for over pressurization.
and I dont want to keep screwing the adjuster in more. As Frank had said 3 turns Should be about 280 FPS, 3.25 Turns at most.

The only other concern I have is the upper button on my pad seems... slightly non functional lmao. I have to push it pretty hard (harder then the other two buttons at least) to make it work. I can HEAR the button clicking, but sometimes it doesnt work unless i give it a good shove.

Last edited by Citrus Eskimo : 05-22-2012 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:01 PM #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Eskimo View Post
The purple Exalt Grip belongs to Tomas Wepa, His worked fine after that. ( I believe. )

The Black and white grip tape was Sam Cowie's (Smeagol 26 on here)
He would be the best info for what happened after. I'm pretty sure we Steam Rolled the Speedball court after that

The no Grip should have been Max Waldes, His worked fine through the day, however he Experienced some major FSDO, and after that no matter how fast he shot the balls would only pop out his barrel around 150 FPS. So I'm not sure if the drive train needed cleaning or what. it wasnt leaking. as far As I know.

My demon, while it suffers no leaks (after putting in the Grip frame O-ring and changing the HRP O-rings, and the Bolt O-rings, and the inner Can O-ring (PLEASE 2 PIECE CAN!) which finally solved the leaking and the puffing issues.
I can only Get mine around 240 FPS (+ / - about 10 - 15 FPS fluctuations )

I didnt care during LL5 after finally getting all the leaks fixed from Mr. Connell and Mike (I think it was Mike... maybe? another tech named Mike??)
I was happy just to see it shooting.

Through the day I started to have FSDO. where if I stopped shooting for more then 10 seconds, my next shot would put a ball into the barrel, then shove about 3 - 4 more into the barrel before I started to shoot confetti, and then finally got a stream going. (still at about 240 FPS though )

So.. all In all.. Defiantly.. A roller Coaster start.

Frank Bumped my Dwell to 16.5 MS, however it didnt seem to help.
Im at 240 FPS (+/- 10 ish) at 4 turn's after Zeroing the regulator. I have no leak for over pressurization.
and I dont want to keep screwing the adjuster in more. As Frank had said 3 turns Should be about 280 FPS, 3.25 Turns at most.

The only other concern I have is the upper button on my pad seems... slightly non functional lmao. I have to push it pretty hard (harder then the other two buttons at least) to make it work. I can HEAR the button clicking, but sometimes it doesnt work unless i give it a good shove.
I'd check your QEV diaphragm if I were you. Sounds like you could be having minor issues with it. I'd swap it, adjust the regulator, and re-chrono and see if that helps. If you keep having FSDO, bump that dwell to 18 for a couple cases. It honestly sounds like you may be over pressurizing and compensating for the bad QEV, which can sometimes make it shoot, but not cycle properly because the manifold is not breathing properly.

I think you're talking about Michael Koker who is Frank's regular tech...conveniently, my name is also Michael.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:19 PM #47
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Originally Posted by Reaper (ACI) View Post
I'd check your QEV diaphragm if I were you. Sounds like you could be having minor issues with it. I'd swap it, adjust the regulator, and re-chrono and see if that helps. If you keep having FSDO, bump that dwell to 18 for a couple cases. It honestly sounds like you may be over pressurizing and compensating for the bad QEV, which can sometimes make it shoot, but not cycle properly because the manifold is not breathing properly.

I think you're talking about Michael Koker who is Frank's regular tech...conveniently, my name is also Michael.
We actually changed the Diaphragm. (thats the little black Semi Sphere right? )
before.
I can bump the Dwell to 18 MS next time I'm at the field.

you can tell if its over pressurized by the very faint leak in the grip frame. I dont have one, Unless over pressurizing leaks can be silent.

I'll Set the Reg to 0 turns (lowest possible FPS)
I can Bump the Dwell to 18MS and re-chrono at 3 Turns
then after if nothing is solved, switch out the little white diaphragm with new ones.

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Old 05-22-2012, 02:24 PM #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Eskimo View Post
We actually changed the Diaphragm. (thats the little black Semi Sphere right? )
before.
I can bump the Dwell to 18 MS next time I'm at the field.

you can tell if its over pressurized by the very faint leak in the grip frame. I dont have one, Unless over pressurizing leaks can be silent.

I'll Set the Reg to 0 turns (lowest possible FPS)
I can Bump the Dwell to 18MS and re-chrono at 3 Turns
then after if nothing is solved, switch out the little white diaphragm with new ones.
Over pressurizing doesn't always cause a leak.

White Diaphragm...I think you're thinking of the Ball detents. The Diaphragm is a black buna cone that goes inside the manifold.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:29 PM #49
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okay I remember (I was sitting beside him when he did it. Yea black cone)
I'll have to grab a bunch of them because they seem to be the cause of many problems for people on the forums.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:43 PM #50
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okay I remember (I was sitting beside him when he did it. Yea black cone)
I'll have to grab a bunch of them because they seem to be the cause of many problems for people on the forums.
Yes.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:52 PM #51
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Also Your first Demon Was T.W.
He says: Shot great all day. +/- of 4, shot like a boss.

Third Demon was actually Forrest's (Team member name fail? Sorry bud)
"Mine was the third Demon with no tape. It had cycling and velocity issues but everything seems good now. Shot great Sunday, kept around 260-270ish. Mine seems to work good now. If I run into anymore problems I'll definitely let him now."

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Old 05-22-2012, 03:07 PM #52
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On Sunday my demon still had low velocity issues and then it started puffing and half cycling and everything had already been changed on it several times. QEV, bolt orings, and parts in the HPR etc.... After having it not work all weekend (and not using it for even one game) I surrendered it to frank.

In all honesty, before I get it back, I definitely would like it to be chronoed and have a bag of pain shot through it at the very least because even after it beig fixed by frank there were a lot of re-occurring issues.

Definitely needs to be shot and chronoed and made certain that it can get up to 300 fps no problem before I recieve it because I don't want to have to ship it out again!
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Old 05-22-2012, 03:19 PM #53
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On Sunday my demon still had low velocity issues and then it started puffing and half cycling and everything had already been changed on it several times. QEV, bolt orings, and parts in the HPR etc.... After having it not work all weekend (and not using it for even one game) I surrendered it to frank.

In all honesty, before I get it back, I definitely would like it to be chronoed and have a bag of pain shot through it at the very least because even after it beig fixed by frank there were a lot of re-occurring issues.

Definitely needs to be shot and chronoed and made certain that it can get up to 300 fps no problem before I recieve it because I don't want to have to ship it out again!
Then it needs another new QEV. If Michael Koker has it, I'm sure he'll put another in it.
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Old 05-22-2012, 03:23 PM #54
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Originally Posted by sameagol26 View Post
On Sunday my demon still had low velocity issues and then it started puffing and half cycling and everything had already been changed on it several times. QEV, bolt orings, and parts in the HPR etc.... After having it not work all weekend (and not using it for even one game) I surrendered it to frank.

In all honesty, before I get it back, I definitely would like it to be chronoed and have a bag of pain shot through it at the very least because even after it beig fixed by frank there were a lot of re-occurring issues.

Definitely needs to be shot and chronoed and made certain that it can get up to 300 fps no problem before I recieve it because I don't want to have to ship it out again!
the bad thing about that QEV is that it's so finicky. You can change it, put it all back together and.. still the same issues. But you changed the diaphragm so that can't be the issue right? Wrong. Because if the diaphragm wasn't seated just right, or you managed to damage it (they are fairly fragile) or if it is just plain a bum part, then it still won't work. I've seen it several times.

The trick with troubleshooting is, if you have a teammate with a 100% functioning piece, start swapping parts so that you can narrow it down to where the problem is. Swap in his entire firing can. Still doesn't work? Yep you know that's not the problem. Swap manifolds, swap regs, narrow it down until everything works. And the reverse is true as well, in case you have two bad parts. Take a "working" marker and swap one bad part from the "bad" marker in. Swap the firing can into the good marker. Still works? Firing can is not the problem. Etc etc etc.

Sometimes it is hard to see the forest for the trees, but a "known good configuration" is your best weapon for troubleshooting a marker.

What sucks is when you're at home with only your own gun and nothing to test parts against. Then it's just the shotgun method, start changing parts and playing with stuff until it works. That's often maddening.
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Old 05-22-2012, 04:28 PM #55
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Yeah I don't know. I have gotten to the breaking point with that demon. Had frank look at it at least 6-7 different times and could still never get it working correctly. It's a real big pain in the *** but frank was always willing to help even after playing his pro games so cudos to him for taking a lot of hours outbid his day to lend us a hand. But still I currently have no demon and it's been left with him. Not sure when it will be 100% fully functional and working but hopefully soon.

Some of our teammates had no issues with their demons though, or very minor consistency issues so lucky them. I guess me and a few others just got the dud ones.
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Old 05-22-2012, 05:23 PM #56
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I'm also on Citrus Connection and purchased a demon. Mine cycled fine all week, but I had varying crono sweep on Sunday. Frank mentioned that with the hpr adjuster screw all the way in, the gun should not cycle, mine does. Does this mean I have a problem with my HPR?

Also to note that it had a grip frame leak when I shot it today aswell.

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Old 05-22-2012, 06:05 PM #57
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For those of you suffering FSDO and drop off issues:

We have made a temporary fix to our guns, which goes a long way in alleviating the issue:

1. Remove the back cap from the bolt guide
2. Insert 2 reballs into the back cap (or something solid of similar size)
3. Screw the bolt guide back on
4. Re-chrono (the gun will be shooting low before you do)

It raises the operating pressure, and allows the gun to cycle way better.

It's not a perfect solution ofcourse, as raising the operating pressure is not exactly desirable, but it beats paint rolling out of the barrel and hitting the ground in front of you

An added benefit, is that the Demon can go through more cycles before needing to be relubed - we are at around 6-7000 cycles with this fix, before drop off occurs, where without it, we have found some guns require re-lubing as often as every 3-4000 cycles (not all, some do way better in the standard configuration).

Obviously, Vanguard will soon present a permanent solution, but meanwhile, this might help some of the people feeling frustrated
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:14 PM #58
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It should also cause more problems with your QEV being sucked into the exhaust hole because you've increased your operating pressure. I think we have enough issues with QEVs without complicating it by sticking reballs into your gun.

I seriously want to cut myself every time I see you post something.
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:18 PM #59
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So the "permanent solution" is going to be a New Solenoid which is designed to vent properly without the use of a QEV, which will mean we'll all get new solenoids and manifolds designed to work without the QEV right? Because that's the problem. Until you fix that, nothing will change! You will continue (in fact increase) the required changing of QEV diaphragms which are becoming harder and harder to find.
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:26 PM #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Brockdorff View Post
For those of you suffering FSDO and drop off issues:

We have made a temporary fix to our guns, which goes a long way in alleviating the issue:

1. Remove the back cap from the bolt guide
2. Insert 2 reballs into the back cap (or something solid of similar size)
3. Screw the bolt guide back on
4. Re-chrono (the gun will be shooting low before you do)

It raises the operating pressure, and allows the gun to cycle way better.

It's not a perfect solution ofcourse, as raising the operating pressure is not exactly desirable, but it beats paint rolling out of the barrel and hitting the ground in front of you

An added benefit, is that the Demon can go through more cycles before needing to be relubed - we are at around 6-7000 cycles with this fix, before drop off occurs, where without it, we have found some guns require re-lubing as often as every 3-4000 cycles (not all, some do way better in the standard configuration).

Obviously, Vanguard will soon present a permanent solution, but meanwhile, this might help some of the people feeling frustrated
Haha, great solution to increase failure.

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Old 05-22-2012, 06:32 PM #61
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seriously? Jamming reballs into your marker?


wtf?
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:35 PM #62
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seriously? Jamming reballs into your marker?


wtf?
Chad, don't you remember all the markers I fixed in Chicago...remember I had to jamb reballs in them to make them work...oh wait nope, I don't remember that either, because that would have been retarded.
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:21 PM #63
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Haha I just hope vanguard makes some changes on the demons to make them a bit more reliable. I live in a part of Canada where there are no techs or vanguard reps around me so when I have issues, if I can't fix it myself I am f*cked.
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